Bible characters

[Radio Storm]

I know this seems like a complete moron question, but is there any evidence (besides what the Bible says of course) that all these Biblical characters, Abraham, David, Solomon, Lot, Jacob, Adam, Moses, Isaac, etc etc actually existed and that their stories are true?

Do you think they all truly existed? What's your opinion?

I'm kind of questioning, but I don't really know. Some of the stories about all of these people seem awfully exaggerated to me. I find it very difficult to believe that so many of them lived for several centuries, or that Solomon had over 1,000 women...

Which brings up another, albeit unrelated question. If polygamy and adultery are sins then why the hell did all of these ancient Israeli kings and prophets have so many wives and concubines? Hypocrisy I say, hypocrisy in the Bible itself.

[Aelius]

Originally Posted by Radio Storm

I know this seems like a complete moron question, but is there any evidence (besides what the Bible says of course) that all these Biblical characters, Abraham, David, Solomon, Lot, Jacob, Adam, Moses, Isaac, etc etc actually existed and that their stories are true?

Do you think they all truly existed? What's your opinion?

Some of the Biblical characters, like Herod, existed, but the main characters in the Old Testament such as the ones you named are not known to have existed. And most of the main characters as described we know for a fact they did not exist because it's physically impossible to have lived as long as they did. They were possibly based on real people, but they are beyond any doubt absolutely fictional as described in the Bible.

Which brings up another, albeit unrelated question. If polygamy and adultery are sins then why the hell did all of these ancient Israeli kings and prophets have so many wives and concubines? Hypocrisy I say, hypocrisy in the Bible itself.

Who says polygamy is a sin? Polygamy is rife all throughout the Bible and it's no surprise because that's exactly how people back then did it. Who can blame the Mormons for being polygamous? If they believe that polygamy is Biblically sanctioned, they're right, it is, what are you going to do about that?

More interesting is that despite being one of the Ten Commandments, killing people is par for the course in the Old Testament. Ordered by - or committed directly by - God. Hell, not but a few chapters in the Bible he floods the whole fucking planet killing everyone. Oh, but I guess he's immune to the rules, right? A bit like the U.S. and international laws.

[Radio Storm]

Originally Posted by Aelius

Who says polygamy is a sin? Polygamy is rife all throughout the Bible and it's no surprise because that's exactly how people back then did it. Who can blame the Mormons for being polygamous? If they believe that polygamy is Biblically sanctioned, they're right, it is, what are you going to do about that?

Exodus 20:14 - You Shall Not Commit Adultery.

Adultery according to the Bible is "the sinful intercourse of a person with someone who is not his one lawful and Scriptural marriage partner". It was forbidden in the Jewish law and was punishable by death (Leviticus 20:10). Polygamy is merely adultery on a permanent basis. Polygamy is always adultery, but adultery is not always polygamy.

The New Testament says that marriage to another partner while the first partner is still living is adultery (Romans 7:1-3). It says, "no fornicator or adulterer shall inherit the kingdom of God" (1 Corinthians 6:9,10). Since a polygamist is an adulterer, he cannot "inherit the kingdom of God". Or something like that.

So, it seems that a man's first wife is his rightful wife unless she was already the rightful wife of another man when he married her. The first wife a man marries is his only Scriptural wife. All others are merely women living with him in adultery.

edit: ooop, now I sound like a complete religious pansy for scrutinizing the Bible and nitpicking every detail...

[Aelius]

Originally Posted by Radio Storm

Exodus 20:14 - You Shall Not Commit Adultery.

Adultery according to the Bible is "the sinful intercourse of a person with someone who is not his one lawful and Scriptural marriage partner". It was forbidden in the Jewish law and was punishable by death (Leviticus 20:10). Polygamy is merely adultery on a permanent basis. Polygamy is always adultery, but adultery is not always polygamy.

The New Testament says that marriage to another partner while the first partner is still living is adultery (Romans 7:1-3). It says, "no fornicator or adulterer shall inherit the kingdom of God" (1 Corinthians 6:9,10). Since a polygamist is an adulterer, he cannot "inherit the kingdom of God". Or something like that.

So, it seems that a man's first wife is his rightful wife unless she was already the rightful wife of another man when he married her. The first wife a man marries is his only Scriptural wife. All others are merely women living with him in adultery.

edit: ooop, now I sound like a complete religious pansy for scrutinizing the Bible and nitpicking every detail...

Your whole argument stems from the premise that polygamy is adultery. What makes you think so? You say that the Bible says "the sinful intercourse of a person with someone who is not his one lawful and Scriptural marriage partner", what verse is that from?

[standardstate]

Originally Posted by Radio Storm

I know this seems like a complete moron question, but is there any evidence (besides what the Bible says of course) that all these Biblical characters, Abraham, David, Solomon, Lot, Jacob, Adam, Moses, Isaac, etc etc actually existed and that their stories are true?

Do you think they all truly existed? What's your opinion?

As a general answer I would say it is difficult to say. It is like asking if odysseus, hercules, or helen of troy really existed. There isn't enough evidence (in most cases) to say one way or another.

I'm kind of questioning, but I don't really know. Some of the stories about all of these people seem awfully exaggerated to me. I find it very difficult to believe that so many of them lived for several centuries, or that Solomon had over 1,000 women...

That's a different question. We can be sure (to beyond a reasonable doubt) that people a few thousand years ago didn't live for hundreds of years, for example.

Which brings up another, albeit unrelated question. If polygamy and adultery are sins then why the hell did all of these ancient Israeli kings and prophets have so many wives and concubines? Hypocrisy I say, hypocrisy in the Bible itself.

All it means is that people were imperfect, just as is true today.

In fact, many old testament characters suffer for their sins.

[Benjamin]

My post from another thread (about the stories in general):

"I don't believe the bible is all literally true. Whether things happened the way they were written or metaphorically makes little difference to me. Of course it's not going to be completely accurate as the stories were told orally before they were written down and probably fabricated to an extent. Not only that, but it was originally written in ancient Hebrew and Aramaic (a dead language, as far as I know.)"

Basically, the bible is not a history book nor a science book, but that does not mean that it cannot be historically or scientifically accurate.

[Natureboi]

I don't think it really matters if all those people existed or not, or if Noah actually built an ark or not, or if all the world's population consisting of extremely diverse races came from Adam and Eve alone, or even if there is a God or not.
I don't think it really matters if any or all of the magical miracles described in the bible actually occurred.
What really matters is whether people believe they existed, and believe the miracles, etc. happened. If you can convince people that all of these stories of the bible occured, then you can organize the people accordingly.

There are a lot of biblical 'sins' that are ignored.

Don't forget...the bible was written when the world was still flat, grossly impoverished, and hugely underpopulated.

[Da Silva]

Originally Posted by Aelius

Some of the Biblical characters, like Herod, existed, but the main characters in the Old Testament such as the ones you named are not known to have existed. And most of the main characters as described we know for a fact they did not exist because it's physically impossible to have lived as long as they did. They were possibly based on real people, but they are beyond any doubt absolutely fictional as described in the Bible.

Who says polygamy is a sin? Polygamy is rife all throughout the Bible and it's no surprise because that's exactly how people back then did it. Who can blame the Mormons for being polygamous? If they believe that polygamy is Biblically sanctioned, they're right, it is, what are you going to do about that?

More interesting is that despite being one of the Ten Commandments, killing people is par for the course in the Old Testament. Ordered by - or committed directly by - God. Hell, not but a few chapters in the Bible he floods the whole fucking planet killing everyone. Oh, but I guess he's immune to the rules, right? A bit like the U.S. and international laws.

The major incidents as recorded in the bible have not been proved to have occured! The whole bible is mainly ancient jewish mythology. Most modern Israelis accept this!
Unfortunately, here in america, we have many people who insist in believing the bible. They simply refuse to accept any facts which contradict the bible!

[Da Silva]

Originally Posted by Benjamin

My post from another thread (about the stories in general):

"I don't believe the bible is all literally true. Whether things happened the way they were written or metaphorically makes little difference to me. Of course it's not going to be completely accurate as the stories were told orally before they were written down and probably fabricated to an extent. Not only that, but it was originally written in ancient Hebrew and Aramaic (a dead language, as far as I know.)"

Basically, the bible is not a history book nor a science book, but that does not mean that it cannot be historically or scientifically accurate.

When a book is not a history book or science book, then its just mythology although it may contain some facts which are historically or even scientifically accurate.
Myths are the beliefs of a civilisation which have not been proven to be true scientifically. Ancient civilisations believed in all sorts of gods, deities, spirits etc.. These myths are part of the collective unconsious of the human race!

[Benjamin]

Originally Posted by Da Silva

When a book is not a history book or science book, then its just mythology although it may contain some facts which are historically or even scientifically accurate.
Myths are the beliefs of a civilisation which have not been proven to be true scientifically. Ancient civilisations believed in all sorts of gods, deities, spirits etc.. These myths are part of the collective unconsious of the human race!

I believe...we already had this conversation.

[Stewie]

Originally Posted by Da Silva

Myths are the beliefs of a civilisation which have not been proven to be true scientifically.

Fail.

[SecularHumanist]

Originally Posted by Radio Storm

Exodus 20:14 - You Shall Not Commit Adultery.

Adultery according to the Bible is "the sinful intercourse of a person with someone who is not his one lawful and Scriptural marriage partner". It was forbidden in the Jewish law and was punishable by death (Leviticus 20:10). Polygamy is merely adultery on a permanent basis. Polygamy is always adultery, but adultery is not always polygamy.

The New Testament says that marriage to another partner while the first partner is still living is adultery (Romans 7:1-3). It says, "no fornicator or adulterer shall inherit the kingdom of God" (1 Corinthians 6:9,10). Since a polygamist is an adulterer, he cannot "inherit the kingdom of God". Or something like that.

You can't interpret Old testament Law using the New Testament. That's like judging customs of 200 years ago based on the ideology of today. At the time of the Old Testament you could be married to multiple people. Just because Paul said something MUCH later doesn't mean that it can be applied retroactively.


Also, for most of the characters in the Bible there is little/no evidence that they existed. When there is evidence it usually points to a different time period than that book was supposedly written in. They did often change names though. There is no evidence, as far as I'm aware, for any of the main characters to have existed.

[tictac]

There's really no physical evidence to support their existance. There's some archeological proof of David's existance though, and people like Peter definately existed.

[Da Silva]

Originally Posted by Benjamin

I believe...we already had this conversation.

Yes, we have had this conversation. So, we have to agree to disagree.

Originally Posted by Stewie

Fail.

Why "fail"? What's your definition of mythology?

[Benjamin]

Originally Posted by Da Silva

Yes, we have had this conversation. So, we have to agree to disagree.



Why "fail"? What's your definition of mythology?

I'm assuming he's referring to "proven to be true scientifically."