QANTAS pilots "Forget" to lower landing gear

[NaFenn]

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-...-landing-gear/

An air safety investigation has been launched after a Qantas jet made its approach to land at the nation's busiest airport without deploying its landing gear.

The pilots apparently noticed their oversight less than 300 metres above the ground.

The airline has stood down the two pilots pending the safety investigation.

Are you nervous of flying because of recent plane incidents? Leave your comments below.

The Qantas 767 was on a morning flight from Melbourne as it came in to land at Sydney airport last Monday.

Once the error was realised, the pilots returned power to the engines and regained altitude, before circling and successfully landing.

But how they came so close to trying to land their jet without being ready to do so is now the subject of a serious incident investigation by the Australian Transport Safety Bureau.

Qantas has released a statement, agreeing it was a serious incident.

"This is an extremely rare event but one we have taken seriously," the statement said.

"The flight crew knew all required procedures but there was a brief communications breakdown. They responded quickly to the situation and instigated a go-around. The cockpit alert coincided with their actions."

The cockpit alert was an audible warning from the ground proximity warning system.

The airline says there was no issue of flight safety and it is fully cooperating with the investigation.

The president of the Australian and International Pilots Association that represents Qantas flight crew, Captain Barry Jackson, says coming in to land is when pilots are at their busiest.

"You're dealing with air traffic, you're dealing with slowing the aircraft down, configuration changes, changing frequencies, all those things," he said.

Mr Jackson says pilots welcome the investigation, to work out what went wrong and how to avoid similar problems happening again.

"It's very serious if the enhanced warning system is activated," he said.

"It's designed to go off when an aircraft is close to the ground and it's not configured for landing, it's designed for that. And so therefore it's done its job.

"I can't comment on the detail. The pilots have been stood down while an investigation takes place, the proper investigation process will take place, will find out the facts, then we'll start to ask the questions how the pilots got there and obviously deal with that as it comes up."

Mr Jackson says it is hard to speculate on the key areas the investigation will need to focus on.

"I believe the go-around was attempted a little bit higher than the altitude that the warning went off," he said.

"I don't know if they actually started to climb straight away because usually when you do a go-around you select the go-around switches. The aeroplane will climb rapidly and if for some reason it's continued to a lower altitude before it's gone around and that warning has been set off."

its stories like this that REEEEEEEEALLY piss me off!!!

they word it to make the pilots sound incompitent, using the smallest number available to make them sound even lower than they were.

300 Meters is 1000 Feet, that is the altitude i fly at in the circuit... its alot higher that people think! the Ground Proximity Warning System works off Radar Altitude, which is only accurate to about 1000 feet depending on the system.

there was NO DANGER AT ALL to the passengers or crew. i can honestly say that i have forgotten to put the gear down on approach... lots of things happening VERY quickly during the approach, and you forget these things... but there are warning systems so we dont try to land wheels up. eg: the mooney has a warning horn that goes off if the wheels are up and the engine pressure is below blah (15 - 17" of Mercury i think) - that goes off, you hit the power, come around, and try again... simple! same as you would in a large aircraft!

[Pixie.]

Doodles.
that is all.

[Scurry Inertia]

You've also forgotten the landing gear. So what your saying is that you're an incompetent pilot too?

Joking.

The media these days are just getting progressively worse. They spin a contraversy out of anything these days.

[FlyingKiwi]

At the risk of being confrontational, unless there is a major emergency, there isn't an excuse to not lower the gear. From an operational sense, it's not as simple as if you forget the gear, execute a go-around and that's the end of it - that's an enormous amount of money wasted, not to mention the consequent bad publicity for the airline, delayed passengers etc. There might not necessarily be a major safety concern here, but clearly there was a problem with the cockpit resource management here to a degree which is completely unacceptable in the airline industry - the reason checklists exist are to prevent things being forgotten when the cockpit workload is getting intense.

That said, the article is rubbish, but basically all articles relating to aviation from non-aviation specific news sources are. It often makes me wonder how inaccurate articles dealing with subjects I'm not familiar with are.

[aussie-boy]

I think people are wising up to these dumb articles... just look at the comments on the news sites. People are dismissing any possible danger and calling for the reinstatement of the pilots.

Likewise, with the Sculpture by the Sea naked boy, the media made it a huge headline in newspapers and on tv but utterly failed to provoke public outcry.

It is a shame, however, when companies take the media's perspective as that of the people and start making stupid decisions (e.g. standing the pilots down)

[kimberley teen]

I just cant belive in this day and age with all the tech and check lists that have to be done how can they skip this little error...It not like they are busy landing....

[FlyingKiwi]

Landing the aircraft still involves a lot of pilot input - indeed, even when the autopilot is flying the aircraft it isn't a case of the pilots being able to go to sleep for 10 hours, it still requires pilot input, just not directly on the controls.

[NaFenn]

I get the feeling that alot of people over estimate how much technology there is up the front of an airliner.

there is a hell of alot of tech up there, but the computers dont do everything... they will NEVER do everything... but pilots are still human. we aren't robots programmed to fly planes expertly and never make mistakes.

and Leo: Mr Instrument Flying Man

Auto pilot goes out the window at 500-1000'AGL except with CAT III ILS systems... which only 1 airport has in australia, which isn't actually active yet (you should know that)

[flyboy2112]

I have to go with FlyingKiwi on this. The fact that they didn't lower the landing gear shows that they either did not follow the pre-landing checklist, or were not careful about its execution. That's why this is a serious problem.

Not lowering the landing gear on an airplane is a BIG FUCKING DEAL, as I'm sure you know. That's why there's audible warnings for it. It's not meant to be a reminder. It's meant to be a signal, "hey, you fucked up, fix it now".

You don't want to have to depend on that safety system, because that is a backup to the checklist. If you properly follow the checklist, the only reason you will encounter an alarm is a mechanical failure.

[kimberley teen]

I was sitting at the end of the runway on Monday and watching the RFDS. Virgin and Skywest landing and take offs in a gusting 35kt crosswinds...Im sure a few of the pilots had to change his dacks..the Virgin must have been on a 15-20 NM nm final. then watch him touch down hard on one wheel, 2 then 3.. Id be sh--ing my self.

[Ashes]

That would be a massive "OH SHI-" moment, I would think.

[NaFenn]

Originally Posted by kimberley teen

I was sitting at the end of the runway on Monday and watching the RFDS. Virgin and Skywest landing and take offs in a gusting 35kt crosswinds...Im sure a few of the pilots had to change his dacks..the Virgin must have been on a 15-20 NM nm final. then watch him touch down hard on one wheel, 2 then 3.. Id be sh--ing my self.

Originally Posted by Ashes

That would be a massive "OH SHI-" moment, I would think.

Pfft... Girls :p

[kimberley teen]

I was with a flight instructor while watching this...
Def not tin top flying..as he says.


Hey Na Fenn,

Are you flying for fun or are you going to do you your endorsment for the twins then turbines?

[alogeagle]

The airline says there was no issue of flight safety and it is fully cooperating with the investigation.

-No Issue of flight Safety? What about landing without the gear? Surly that must be unsafe.

The president of the Australian and International Pilots Association that represents Qantas flight crew, Captain Barry Jackson, says coming in to land is when pilots are at their busiest.

"You're dealing with air traffic, you're dealing with slowing the aircraft down, configuration changes, changing frequencies, all those things," he said.

-SO? Thousands of other pilots around the world remember.

Mr Jackson says it is hard to speculate on the key areas the investigation will need to focus on.

-I'm Guessing they should focus on the pilots. Just a thought.

[NaFenn]

Originally Posted by kimberley teen

Hey Na Fenn,

Are you flying for fun or are you going to do you your endorsment for the twins then turbines?

Im flying for a career.

Doing a twin endorsment in a few weeks, Commercial Pilots Licence Training in January, and will do a turbine later down the track.

Originally Posted by alogeagle

-No Issue of flight Safety? What about landing without the gear? Surly that must be unsafe.

They didn't land with the wheels up, the warning system went off and they went around.

Wheels up landings occur occasionally... and they are usually better landings than normal ones - there have been a couple at jandakot recently.
Nothing unsafe there... unless they continued

Originally Posted by alogeagle

-SO? Thousands of other pilots around the world remember.

ok, someones driving home, and goes though a barrier off a cliff because they didn't realise there was a turn there... So what? Thousands of other drivers realised there was a turn there?

Originally Posted by alogeagle

-I'm Guessing they should focus on the pilots. Just a thought.

Fair comment, although there are alot of other factors in the situation: nearby traffic (could have caused a distraction to the pilots), ATC (same as last), what was happening in the cockpit (eg: what were the pilots doing, were they supposed to be doing it, so on)