Killing for God

[Radio Storm]

When I hear of people killing other people just for religious reasons and so called "holy wars", or how people brutally tortured and slaughtered others for being non-believers in bygone eras (especially the middle ages), I wish I could ask them this question.

Do you really think your God wants you commit murder for his sake? Is your God really that cruel, that ruthless?

Is committing murder not a mortal sin, blatantly going against the word of God?

I can't think of any commonly followed religion today that has a God who condones murder.

So, what the hell were/are these nutty radicals doing?

[standardstate]

Originally Posted by J-Rod

Do you really think your God wants you commit murder for his sake? Is your God really that cruel, that ruthless?

The old testament is filled with examples of people killing for god. The story of abraham and isaac can also be read as a lesson in doing whatever god tells you, even if you might think it is a bad thing.

[Radio Storm]

Yeah, but the people who perpetrate these religiously motivated terrorist attacks and such, I doubt "God" or "Allah" or whatever the heck his name is actually instructed them to do the things they do (probably because there is no such thing as God). They're just being delusional idiots and making dumb assumptions.

[Zwitterion]

God really is that cruel. At least, the God of the Old Testament... see my signature for more information.

[charlisangel]

I dont know If this appropriated, But here some lyrics of A dream Theater song that deals with that theme.

How can this be?
Why is he the chosen one?
Saint gone astray
With a scepter and a gun
Learn to believe
In the mighty and the strong
Come bleed the beast
Follow me it won't be long

Listen when the prophet
Speaks to you
Killing in the name of God
Passion
Twisting faith into violence
In the name of God

Straight is the path
Leading to your salvation
Slaying the weak
Ethnic elimination
Any day we'll all be
Swept away
You'll be saved
As long as you obey
Lies
Tools of the devil inside
Written in Holy disguise
Meant to deceive and divide
Us all
Blurring the lines
Between virtue and sin
They can't tell
Where God ends
And mankind begins
They know no other
Life but this
From the cradle
They are claimed
Hundreds of believers
Lured into a doomsday cult
All would perish
In the name of God
Self-proclaimed messiah
Led his servants
To their death
Eighty murdered
In the name of God
Forty sons and daughters
Un-consenting plural wives
Perversions
In the name of God
Underground religion
Turning toward
The mainstream light
Blind devotion
In the name of God
Justifying violence
Citing from the Holy Book
Teaching hatred
In the name of God
Religious beliefs
Fanatic obsession
Does following faith
Lead us to violence?
Unyielding crusade
Divine revelation
Does following faith
Lead us to violence?
Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord:
He is trampling out the vintage where the grapes of wrath are stored;
He hath loosed the fateful lightning of His terrible swift sword:
His truth is marching on.

[darkcharles]

Originally Posted by standardstate

The old testament is filled with examples of people killing for god. The story of abraham and isaac can also be read as a lesson in doing whatever god tells you, even if you might think it is a bad thing.

But what happened just in the moment that Abraham was going to kill Isaac?

[madgeisgod]

Originally Posted by darkcharles

But what happened just in the moment that Abraham was going to kill Isaac?

I'm pretty sure the intervention is part of the point standard was making...

[DoBesh]

Originally Posted by darkcharles

But what happened just in the moment that Abraham was going to kill Isaac?

Well, Dark Charles, that is one example but you cannot deny God kills a lot in the bible. Here's an example:

2 Kings 2:
23 From there Elisha went up to Bethel. As he was walking along the road, some youths came out of the town and jeered at him. "Go on up, you baldhead!" they said. "Go on up, you baldhead!" 24 He turned around, looked at them and called down a curse on them in the name of the LORD. Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the youths. 25 And he went on to Mount Carmel and from there returned to Samaria.

[Krista]

Originally Posted by DoBesh

"Go on up, you baldhead!" they said. "Go on up, you baldhead!"

I wonder if this insult carried cultural significance. It certainly seems an overreaction by Elisha in any case.

[sstr]

Originally Posted by Krista

I wonder if this insult carried cultural significance. It certainly seems an overreaction by Elisha in any case.

Indeed, Elisha seems to have been having a very bad day.

Originally Posted by J-Rod

When I hear of people killing other people just for religious reasons and so called "holy wars", or how people brutally tortured and slaughtered others for being non-believers in bygone eras (especially the middle ages), I wish I could ask them this question.

Do you really think your God wants you commit murder for his sake? Is your God really that cruel, that ruthless?

Is committing murder not a mortal sin, blatantly going against the word of God?

I can't think of any commonly followed religion today that has a God who condones murder.

So, what the hell were/are these nutty radicals doing?

I do not see why there is any difficulty with the idea of "Holy Wars" or wars sanctioned by God. For Jews, Christians, and Muslims alike there are examples in their holy books of legitimate wars commanded by God. In Judaism and Islam there is even a body of law pertaining to how such wars should be waged.

Your objection on the grounds of "thou shalt not murder" is easily overcome by the distinction between killing and murder - the latter being a kind of killing which is not sanctioned by God and is therefore prohibited. But it is clearly not the case that all kinds of killing are prohibited in all circumstances.

I do not find it at all difficult to understand how these "nutty radicals" can kill in the name of God, if they believe that he requires them to do so. A better question might be for believers to ask themselves - if your God commanded you to kill, by what right could you deny him?

[standardstate]

Originally Posted by darkcharles

But what happened just in the moment that Abraham was going to kill Isaac?

Apparently it was a test. That doesn't invalidate the point - that if god says kill, you kill.

And...the old testament is filled with examples where god's people, on god's orders, went ahead and did kill.

[sean]

There are examples of killing for God in the bible, yes. However, the 6th commandment: Thou shalt not murder/kill, to me, represents more of an imperative to avoid war. I don't think anyone's truly converted because of the use of force. Rather, most people are converted by missionaries, who offer what seems to be a better life.

[sstr]

Originally Posted by sean

There are examples of killing for God in the bible, yes. However, the 6th commandment: Thou shalt not murder/kill, to me, represents more of an imperative to avoid war. I don't think anyone's truly converted because of the use of force. Rather, most people are converted by missionaries, who offer what seems to be a better life.

The commandment is thou shalt not murder, not thou shalt not kill. The difference is significant.

In any case, assuming you are correct, how do you explain numerous wars commanded by God in the Bible? He clearly didn't see an imperative to avoid war in certain instances.

[surgery_x]

There's alot of mixed messages coming from the old testiment. Indeed God advocates, if not demands, the brutal killing of hundreds of thousands -- himself personally executing individuals with plauges, etc.

"All loving" doesn't really appear until the New Testiment. Interesting...

[Neverender]

Is committing murder not a mortal sin, blatantly going against the word of God?

I can't think of any commonly followed religion today that has a God who condones murder.

So, what the hell were/are these nutty radicals doing?

As mentioned by others, murder and killing are indeed two different things. However, murder is committed against the law supposedly in the name of God, so in such a case they don't really have anything to say for themselves. They're doing what they want to do, and projecting their will onto God as though he had ordained them to make 'nutcases' of themselves.