Empire state building honors the prc

[irishamerican]

Well i think its a discraceful that we are honoring a ruthless regime, not to mention that its communist. But disregard my own personal opinion heres the story.
Well as we all know the empire state buildings lights are put on to honor special ocasions like red, white, and blue on the fourth of july or green and red for christmas. But yesterday night they were red and orange to honor the PRCs 60th anniversary of its communist revolution which has sparked outrage across the country as to why including free tibet suporters, news agencies, politicians, even our advisor for asian relations. So my question is if youve heard and what you think about it.

[Braxton]

In light of the Empire State Building used to honour the colours of other countries on their national days I don't see the big issue here. With China basically being the United States' biggest trading partner and the Communist Party being the rulers of mainland China for the forseeable future using those colours was not so much as honouring the Chinese government but rather the people of China who clearly view those as their national colours. Many times in politics one can have a much stronger influence upon folks by interacting with them rather than dismissing them. If the Chinese Government feels it is respected by the United States, then it will be more inclined to discuss delicate issues as opposed to being dictated to by others.

Basically, I interpreted the display of colours at the Empire State Building as honouring the Chinese people and their culture on a major milestone in their history no different as what has been done for other countries apparantly. China is not our enemy, and it is not like the Empire State Building was lit up in North Korean colours.

[FlyingKiwi]

Over to debates

[Joker]

i dont get the issue. Them being 'communist' is none of your business. Diplomatic relations is complicated like paris said. You cant be confrontational with china. They are here and not going anywhere son

[standardstate]

Originally Posted by irishamerican

Well i think its a discraceful that we are honoring a ruthless regime, not to mention that its communist. But disregard my own personal opinion heres the story.

You've been watching glen beck.

I watch him too...but unlike you, I do so because I think he is a joke.

So my question is if youve heard and what you think about it.

"Who cares" is my dominant feeling.

If you are so outraged I hope you never buy products manufactured in the prc, and boycott all stores that stock such products.

[Comrade Tickle]

In a lot of ways I agree with the sentiment of the original post, I just don't see how the Chinese government could ever meet the liberal and democratic standards of government in the west if we shun them.

[irishamerican]

Originally Posted by standardstate

You've been watching glen beck.

I watch him too...but unlike you, I do so because I think he is a joke.

"Who cares" is my dominant feeling.

If you are so outraged I hope you never buy products manufactured in the prc, and boycott all stores that stock such products.

how about this, you dont asume i watch anybody ok. i dont watch that wack job. and i dont like communism ok, did you ever consider that. and im all for honoring the modern china and thheir acomplishments, but this is honoring a day that caused millions of chinese, tibetan, american, and korean lives so i do see a problem with this. if they want to honor the modern acomplishments of china i dont care, but this is not a day to remember, its like honoring the comunist revolution in cuba or the north vietnamese victory. so there is a problem here considering thst this is the tallest building in one of the largest and most visited city in the world.

[standardstate]

Originally Posted by irishamerican

how about this, you dont asume i watch anybody ok.

I'll make whatever assumptions I want.

i dont watch that wack job.

He has a radio show. Perhaps you listen to that wack job.

and i dont like communism ok, did you ever consider that. and im all for honoring the modern china and thheir acomplishments, but this is honoring a day that caused millions of chinese, tibetan, american, and korean lives so i do see a problem with this.

I see.

How about if they lit the empire state building up in red white and blue to honor the united states. It wouldn't bother you that this nation is built on land stolen from its original inhabitants, upon whom casual genocide was practiced, while a second race of people was imported from their native lands to be used as slave labor?

I'm no friend of communism (though the word doesn't make me curl up into the fetal position either) but if you are going to be upset with honoring the chinese you might want to show some consistency. The chines invasion and occupation of tibet happened over 50 years ago - how long ago was the us invasion and occupation of iraq, or the us war in vietnam?

if they want to honor the modern acomplishments of china i dont care,

Of course, that is what lighting up the building does.

I do have to comment on your odd dislike of china. You dislike that it was communist 60 years ago, but don't much mind that it is communist today, seeing how you have no problem with honoring its modern accomplishments.

That sure sounds like beckian reasoning to me.

but this is not a day to remember, its like honoring the comunist revolution in cuba or the north vietnamese victory.

I'm no fan of fidel, but you might want to check the government he overthrew, which was a dictatorship (albeit a right wing dictatorship - are those okay with you?)

As for "north" vietnam - again, pick up a history book. Vietnam was supposed to be reunited in the mid-1950s by a popular vote of its people. However, the us strongly encouraged south vietnam to pull out of the election because of their fear (likely justified) that ho chi minh would win. And how many civilians did the us kill in that war (a war more recent than the chinese occupation of tibet, by the way)?

so there is a problem here considering thst this is the tallest building in one of the largest and most visited city in the world.

I notice you didn't reply to my questions concerning your purchasing habits. Do you buy chinese manufactured goods, and boycott businesses that sell them? If not, then why are you so upset with lighting up the empire state building? Is it because a boycott would require actual effort on your part, rather than simply talking?

[Oxford]

Originally Posted by irishamerican

but this is honoring a day that caused millions of chinese, tibetan, american, and korean lives so i do see a problem with this.

That's being a bit too harsh. There was nothing particularly evil about Mao's rise to power or the founding of the PRC. China was coming out of war with Japan, the country was in shambles, the KMT government was struggling and corrupt, etc. People were fed up with the situation and many put their faith in Mao and his beliefs. It's true that some of actions the PRC has taken were not good decisions, but showing respect for the country's National Day isn't saying, "We agree with everything the PRC has ever done."

[jamie93]

Let's face it, it would make a far bigger statement if they the empire state building didn't honour china on it's national day than did. America can't and probably won't make enemies under the obama regime to the same extent that bush did and so to not honour them would be a bit of a pointless statement.

[irishamerican]

Originally Posted by standardstate

I'll make whatever assumptions I want.

He has a radio show. Perhaps you listen to that wack job.

I see.

How about if they lit the empire state building up in red white and blue to honor the united states. It wouldn't bother you that this nation is built on land stolen from its original inhabitants, upon whom casual genocide was practiced, while a second race of people was imported from their native lands to be used as slave labor?

I'm no friend of communism (though the word doesn't make me curl up into the fetal position either) but if you are going to be upset with honoring the chinese you might want to show some consistency. The chines invasion and occupation of tibet happened over 50 years ago - how long ago was the us invasion and occupation of iraq, or the us war in vietnam?

Of course, that is what lighting up the building does.

I do have to comment on your odd dislike of china. You dislike that it was communist 60 years ago, but don't much mind that it is communist today, seeing how you have no problem with honoring its modern accomplishments.

That sure sounds like beckian reasoning to me.

I'm no fan of fidel, but you might want to check the government he overthrew, which was a dictatorship (albeit a right wing dictatorship - are those okay with you?)

As for "north" vietnam - again, pick up a history book. Vietnam was supposed to be reunited in the mid-1950s by a popular vote of its people. However, the us strongly encouraged south vietnam to pull out of the election because of their fear (likely justified) that ho chi minh would win. And how many civilians did the us kill in that war (a war more recent than the chinese occupation of tibet, by the way)?

I notice you didn't reply to my questions concerning your purchasing habits. Do you buy chinese manufactured goods, and boycott businesses that sell them? If not, then why are you so upset with lighting up the empire state building? Is it because a boycott would require actual effort on your part, rather than simply talking?

Ok, i dont listen to him either. I dont mind honoring modern china because its more of an extreme socialist nation now than it is communist. As for the whole we killed more vietnamese civilians than the nv did, the way i see it is that its the other way round, the nv killed all suporters of south korea that they could find during the tet offensive (yeah i do know things, and i read my text book all the time plus watch the history, military, nat geo, and discovery channels as well as read alot on subjects), i dont recall very many nv supporters being killed by americans (except those actively supplying and/harboring them and the vietcong), now granted there were casulties but that comes with every war but coupled with the executions since the wars end, the nv or i should say vietnamese have killed far more civilians than we did. And i shouldnt even dignify your red white and blue question with a response because its just stupid, of course they are going to fly the red white and blue on the fourth of july we are americans. And sorry i didnt read your question about if i buy chinese made products, the answer is yes i do i wish i didnt but i dont really have much of an option. And my cuban comment was a bit foolish i know, they were a horrific dictatorship but fidel wasnt an improvement, if i suported comunism id say that che should have stayed instead of trying to ignite revolution in africa but oh well. I hope i responded to all your statements but if i missed one just tell me and i will.

[Shael]

Originally Posted by jamie93

Let's face it, it would make a far bigger statement if they the empire state building didn't honour china on it's national day than did.

I believe your mistakened.

In fact this wouldn't even be American News worthy if it wasn't for the lightning on the building celebrating the historical rise of China under the leadership of the Communist Party +, YES, PLUS the modern day economic miracle that is an emerging and opening pseudo socialist-capitalist market hub that is China.

With boom's in technology in terms of Internet and Mobile connectivity, market share in manufacturing goods and the rise of a service market share in China. The new affluent generation growing up in a more open and ideal world for young minds that embrace democratic values, freedom of information, and silently/passively disregard the ruling party and it's cruel antics to keep politics in China in the dark.

Now, what's the actual issue here? Why is this a problem? Is it the lighting? Or does it go deeper than that... Resentment coupled with false fears and propoganda fed to the public from the Right in American life and politics? Misinformation and the idiotic sense that to view China and Chinese people is to only look at it's Military and Political representatives, forgetting that 1.3billion people do share a VERY LARGE SCALE of different opinions, as does any nation?

This thread is pointless.

[CaptainObvious]

Originally Posted by irishamerican

Ok, i dont listen to him either. I dont mind honoring modern china because its more of an extreme socialist nation now than it is communist.

Why should that matter at all? What about Communism is so morally unacceptable compared to extreme socialism? China certainly respects human rights no more now, as an "extreme socialist" country than it has before as a "communist" country.

[madgeisgod]

Can we even say China is extremely socialist considering how much it contributes to extreme capitalism both globally and internally?

[Shael]

Originally Posted by madgeisgod

Can we even say China is extremely socialist considering how much it contributes to extreme capitalism both globally and internally?

I don't know, you tell me what's considered extremely socialist and let's go from there.