Who is the best special forces?
I think the seals. There is a TV show on about them right now. They look mean as hell. :P
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Who is the best special forces?
I think the seals. There is a TV show on about them right now. They look mean as hell. :P
Although the Royal Marines have a similar section, the SBS, which includes anphibious training on top of hte SAS.
-Jacob
The SBS training is far harder than the SAS.
SAS training consists of the SAS selection. that's it.
SBS men must have beforehand completed the RM commando course, argubly the toughest outside the SAS, then the SAS selection, THEN the SBS training. Paddy Ashdown was a former SBS marine.
The reason the SAS is made out to be better than the SBS is because of the publicity it has got. The SBS is the most secretive of all Britain's forces, and the MoD has tried to keep it that way by accrediting the SAS with the SBS's glory.
Ie. if the SBS did something way cool, they would say it was the SAS to preserve the secrecy of the SBS. The SBS is based in Poole, Southern England:)
Ok kids, so which is better, British or Australian Specail forces??
well, have the Australians been combat tested?
they were also in Gulf I, Afganistan and the latest war. They are said to be the best troops in the world. I can't argue for them because I know nothing about them, just that they are apprently the best.
I'm not saying this because I am biased, but I truely beleive the SAS/SBS are the best in the world.
The Australian SAS (SASR) are also very good. Their only problem being they arn't trained for as many situations as the British SAS.
Just because something is called 'SAS' dosen't mean it's excellent. The South African SAS are newbies compared with the SAS and SASR. That being said, members of the South African SAS have served with the British SAS on operations, if they are deemed good enough.
The Australians have been taught by the British SAS since world war 2. That's why they are so good. :)
Spetsnaz
The SAS recruit just about anybody, entry into the SBS is alot more stringent, one must be already a professional soldier, and a member of the Royal marines, which is by itself an elite unit. I've heard the training there is harsher, though the mission profiles which they train for are narrower. Does that translate into a better overall specforce? Who knowsQuote:
Originally posted by Brit Twit
I'm not saying this because I am biased, but I truely beleive the SAS/SBS are the best in the world.
The Australian SAS (SASR) are also very good. Their only problem being they arn't trained for as many situations as the British SAS.
Just because something is called 'SAS' dosen't mean it's excellent. The South African SAS are newbies compared with the SAS and SASR. That being said, members of the South African SAS have served with the British SAS on operations, if they are deemed good enough.
The Australians have been taught by the British SAS since world war 2. That's why they are so good. :)
I'm not quite sure if they are the best because I don't know all the facts about every spec ops unit in the world, but the Force Marine Recons are some of the toughest s.o.b.s around. I believe they are the most elite in U.S., at least in terms of physicial trials more is required of them than the SEALs.
of course they're the only unit so far mentioned i havent heard of, lol!Quote:
Originally posted by AdrenalineRush
I'm not quite sure if they are the best because I don't know all the facts about every spec ops unit in the world, but the Force Marine Recons are some of the toughest s.o.b.s around. I believe they are the most elite in U.S., at least in terms of physicial trials more is required of them than the SEALs.
US Air Force Para Jumpers (PJ's). They have the highest washout rate (nearly 70%) of any special service and they have to go through over 18 monthes of training. Basically, they do everything that any other special force can do, plus they are combat medics.
The SAS are trained as medics.Quote:
plus they are combat medics.
Why them?Quote:
Originally Posted by Chechnya
One must have been a professional soldier for at least 3 years if one wished to join the SAS.Quote:
The SAS recruit just about anybody, entry into the SBS is alot more stringent, one must be already a professional soldier
Only the reserves can join straight fro civilian life.
I mean like for real EMS sorta guys. They can do field surgeries and fun stuff like that. As far as American Specail forces go, for the amount of time that the PJ's have been around, they have received far more medals of honor than any other force. BTW, their primary mission is combat rescue, not an easy thing.Quote:
Originally posted by Brit Twit
The SAS are trained as medics.
Here's the traing which they have to go through (according to: http://www.af.mil/news/factsheets/pararescue.html)
Pretty awsome. Pretty beastly. Whats more, their mission is a continueing one, whether in war or peaceQuote:
Training
Pararescuemen complete the same technical training as EMT-Paramedics. Plus the following physical and specialized training.
Indoctrination Course, Lackland Air Force Base, Texas -- This 10-week Indoctrination Course recruits, selects and trains future PJs through extensive physical conditioning. Training accomplished at this course includes physiological training, obstacle course, rucksack marches, dive physics, dive tables, metric manipulations, medical terminology, cardiopulmonary resuscitation, weapons qualifications, PJ history and leadership reaction course.
U.S. Army Airborne School, Fort Benning, Ga. -- Trainees learn the basic parachuting skills required to infiltrate an objective area by static line airdrop in a three-week course.
U.S. Army Combat Divers School, Key West, Fla. -- In Key West, trainees become combat divers, learning to use scuba to infiltrate areas undetected in the four-week school. This course provides training to depths of 130 feet, stressing development of maximum underwater mobility under various operating conditions.
U.S. Navy Underwater Egress Training, Pensacola Naval Air Station, Fla. -- This course teaches how to safely escape from an aircraft that has ditched in the water. The one-day instruction includes principles, procedures and techniques necessary to get out of a sinking aircraft.
U.S. Air Force Basic Survival School, Fairchild AFB, Wash. -- This two and a half-week course teaches basic survival techniques for remote areas. Instruction includes principles, procedures, equipment and techniques, which enable individuals to survive, regardless of climatic conditions or unfriendly environments and return home.
U.S. Army Military Free Fall Parachutist School, Fort Bragg, N.C., and Yuma Proving Grounds, Ariz. -- This course instructs trainees in free fall parachuting procedures. The five-week course provides wind tunnel training, in-air instruction focusing on student stability, aerial maneuvers, air sense and parachute opening procedures.
Paramedic Course, Kirtland AFB, N.M. -- This 24-week course teaches how to manage trauma patients prior to evacuation and provide emergency medical treatment. Upon graduation, an EMT-Paramedic certification is awarded through the National Registry.
Pararescue Recovery Specialist Course, Kirtland AFB, N.M. -- Qualifies airmen as pararescue recovery specialists for assignment to any pararescue unit worldwide. The 20-week training includes field tactics, mountaineering, combat tactics, advanced parachuting and helicopter insertion/extraction.
It's not they're primary mission, but I'm sure that they do. But, to a degree, they do deal with secrets and stuff, since they are combat rescue, they prevent intel from falling into the hands of the enemy. It's really a shame that you never hear about the PJ's.
I don't mean to imply that's I'm pissed off at what you said because I'm not, but are you disputing the fact that this unit exists?Quote:
Originally posted by s k y z e r
of course they're the only unit so far mentioned i havent heard of, lol!
Second, they are extremely secretive at least in terms of media converage. The SEALs, Airborne Rangers, PJs/Combat Controllers get way more attention; however, these guys have a grueling training schedule a lot tougher than any other U.S., even though it takes longer to become a PJ/Combat Controller, the degree of skill required to pass a part of a test is not at high. These guys are required to swim faster than the SEALs, I'll try when I get time to look for the schedule of tests and they are more elite fighers then any other U.S. unit.
Nah, of course i don't deny they exist. But I've simply haven't heard of them before, probably due to the fact the military is not my forte, or perhaps their profile is lower than that of other elite forces. I apologise for any offense i may have given.
The Marine Officers' Basic Training Course is 18 months...Quote:
Originally posted by Rabid_Drummer
US Air Force Para Jumpers (PJ's). They have the highest washout rate (nearly 70%) of any special service and they have to go through over 18 monthes of training. Basically, they do everything that any other special force can do, plus they are combat medics.
-Jacob
What about the Mossad, anyone know anything about them?
Yeh, pilot traning takes up to 3 years, surface warfare training takes 2 years, as do most specialized courses. Just, 18 monthes is longer than any other american special forces training. Plus, the PJ's have already been through six weeks of basic training.Quote:
Originally posted by Arc
The Marine Officers' Basic Training Course is 18 months...
-Jacob
The Mossad are an Israeli secret service, not exactly special forces.Quote:
What about the Mossad, anyone know anything about them?
I sometimes feel the same way about the SBS, but I suppose their secrecy is for the best .Quote:
Originally Posted by rabid_drummer
it's a tossup between the SBS and delta force
Delta Force! They're good, but not that good. The SBS on the other hand, WOW! They own.Quote:
Originally posted by 7 of 11
it's a tossup between the SBS and delta force
Who cares? It all comes down the the indiviual and luck and blabla. I have confidence that the sas or whatever would do a good job at rescuing my weak civillian arse.
^^ That is a sentiment I strongly agree with.
You can never compare like with like, and you can never aquire a comprehensive set of criteria so the question is, in the end almost impossible.
-Jacob
what about the 'goings on' in iraq a few months ago where the sbs left all their weapons and gear etc for the iraqs when being attacked and some officers rode off on their fellow soldiers quad bikes leaving the others stranded. this doesnt seem like what a highly trained organisation should do???
Get your facts straight, asshole
A team of about 30 SBS men were compromised in southern Iraq. Yes, they were operating in unusally large numbers, meaning they couldn't exactly hide up and wait for the danger to pass.
They tabbed 240 Miles to Syria. How are they meant to travel 240 miles, almost jogging, with more then 60 pounds of equipment on their back? They probably ditched the bergens, and crammed as much as they could in their pounches (water, ammo). Equipment can be replaced. A person cannot. Despite fierce firefights all the way through northern Iraq, they made it to Damascus with 0 casualities.
Those who had quad bikes, or needed to get out faster, (low on ammo, for example) took them.
you said how requipment can be replaced and people cant....this was big money stuff, millions of pounds of high tech stuff....the americas had to come in after and blow up all the equipment incase of iraqis got hold of it. it included communications etc. also there was to be a certain number of men guarding their camp, but some where lazy and didnt, which is how the iraqis came up and attacked them and it was some of the leading officers that took other soldiers quad bikes, they basically stole them and fled through ignorance and self greed and fear of their own lifes, some men they are!
And you being in Ulster, you would obv be against the British army. The SBS, I think, are just a bit better than the IRA.Quote:
Equipment can be replaced. A person cannot
let me get this through to you, 'asshole'! if you werent so uptight and so self obsessed, you would realise that people who boast about being from ULSTER and are proud that they are from ULSTER are what we call protestants. they believe in being seperate from the Republic Of Ireland. the IRA on the other hand are catholics and want a united Ireland. now you see, people in ulster who are protests support the british army but the IRA who are CATHOLICS despise the british army and protestants....so if you werent so stubborn and ignorant you would realise from my name that i support the british army!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ok......the fact i use ulster in my name shows i am a protestant, as no catholic would ever use the term ulster. protestants, who support and agree with Nothern Ireland being in the UK support the british army! im just making a point, because no one seems to know about the situation over here, yet they try to make out they do
Israel
Okay, break it up, no need for that here. If you have beef, take it up over PM where I don't have to see it. Thank you.
Ulster, next time you call names, I'll have to warn you. You are obviously new here so I'll let this one slide. I'd suggest taking a look at the terms of service in order to avoid any problems in the future.
sorry guys, im new to this as you can see and i just thought id liven this ups. no hard feelings !!
Adam, the image you displayed in NOT the SAS.
and NYSwimmer, you think they Isreal SF are better than the British and US ones? I think not.
its deffinitley the navy seals. they have the most grueling training in the us, special forces. a close contender is our army rangers followed by delta force, and the green berrets. Force Recon, is no longer used, it was the marines special forces.
Mossad is one thing, they're an intelligence agency like the CIA or MI-6, but their specforces? On par with the SAS? no way.Quote:
Originally posted by NYswimma
Israel
Would the SAS be sitting there in their jeeps, in the middle of the desert, waving the British flag around? No.Quote:
errr yes it is.
Second, your caption - 'ready to hunt scuds'. The SAS in the gulf were as usual, on a top secret mission, and worked in groups of 8 or 10. They didn't use Jeeps, due to the fact that they would be too noisy and difficult to hide. They didn't use British flags for obvious reasons. Your picture shows an armoured column, with no less than 5 jeeps in that picture. That is not the SAS. That is a picture from the last gulf war; they had British flags so they could be easily identified by US pilots. :)
Anyone in the British army who dosen't want to be photographed?
The navy Seals could be right in front of you and you wouldnt know they were there until you were on the ground with 7 bullets in your ass.
Ahhh the amount of misinformation and half-truths in thei thread are astonishing. Fristly, Force Recon is not dead, my platoon guide just came here from Force 2 years ago. I'm sure they've done some cool shit in Iraq. Now I'm going to break it down into the best the service have to offer, and why which Special Operations Unit is the best.
Army- Special Forces (Green Berets) Go through 8 Weeks Basic Training (Less difficult than Marine, but more than Air Force or Navy) like all soldiers, x weeks of infantry training, Ranger School (usually) and Jump School. After those schools they go to SFAS and SFQC to essentailly be stested and see if they have what it takes to become a green beret. Those are 2 of the toughest schools in the US military. Once they become Green Berets they go to a myriad of other schools, SERE, SCUBA, language training and of course are extremely proficient with the use of weapons. SF's primary role was a counter-insurgency force most higlighted in Vietnam. They train indiginous people to fight against America's foes. Now they run basic Special Ops... eliminating targets behind enemy lines, capture of key personnel and Delta Force (Special Forces Operaional Detachment Delta) conducts counter-terrorist operations, as well as the ones stated above.
Navy SEALs- By far the most well known and publicized Special Operations force in the world, the Navy SEALs require 8 weeks of Navy Basic training (not as difficult as Army, but moreso than Air Force), A-School (you can go to any A-school I believe and length is determinate on the school you attend) and then you go to big, bad BUD/S. That is what you see on the show, where they break you down and make you pla yin the cold cold water all day. BUD/S is extremely difficult and challenges you mentally and physically. After that you go to Jump school Dive school and do a myriad of other things as well. SEALs specialize in Maritime Special Operations (capture of Oil Rigs, coastal towns, demining), and will usually directly support the Fleet they are attached to.
Marine Reconnaisance- To become a Marine you go to 13 weeks of Recruit Training (regarged as the toughest in all the services) and 8 Weeks of Infantry training. You must excell in both in order to be selected for Recon Indoc, which is somewhat similar to BUD/S. After indoc you go to jump and dive school and others depending on slots available. Recon specializes in gathering reconaissance behind enemy lines and carrying out missions that help fulfill the objective of the MEU they are attached to.
Air Force Pararescue Jumpers- The PJ's attend 6 weeks of Basic Training (easiest of all services) and then a school for PJ's. They attend Jump and Dive school. This is the force I know the least about but I know that they are also qualified medics and specialize int eh rescue of downed pilots. The AF also has combat controlers which direct fire from behind enemy lines, which is extremely dangerous as well.
Bottom line no service's Special Operations is better. They all have different missions and different methods of training. Recon take highly trained infantry Marines, whereas the SEALs take any sailor. Recon get's it's medics from the Navy where all PJ's are highly combat medics. Special Forces gets to attend all the best schools and gets the cooler equipment and you can have a career in it where as you stay in Recon for a very short while then get cycled around. All have thier ups and downs and if you want to attempt to join any of them you must be in excellent physical shape (Run 3 miles in 18 min, 100 pushups in 2 min, 100 situps in 2 min, 20 dead arm pullups, 500m swim are just a few of the physical requirements universal to the branches) and have a mental attitude that doesn't all yourself quit. On TOP of all that you must pass psychological screenings and have to be a damn good Sailor, Marine, Soldier or Airman in the first place.
Regular British infantrymen to 12 weeks of basic.Quote:
Army- Special Forces (Green Berets) Go through 8 Weeks Basic Training
...totalling about 21 weeks. British Royal Marine Commandos do 30 weeks, and to join the Brigade recce force, the equivalent of your guys marine recce, requires further training and recommendation.Quote:
Marine Reconnaisance- To become a Marine you go to 13 weeks of Recruit Training (regarged as the toughest in all the services) and 8 Weeks of Infantry
The british elite forces do the jobs of your special forces. eg - Parachute Regiment is very similar to the Rangers. Another thing that surpises me is that from what you've tpyed, you don't have to have already served 3 years in the services to join the special forces.
Army Basic Training is a joke, it's everything that comes afterwards that is important.Quote:
Originally posted by Brit Twit
Regular British infantrymen to 12 weeks of basic.
...totalling about 21 weeks. British Royal Marine Commandos do 30 weeks, and to join the Brigade recce force, the equivalent of your guys marine recce, requires further training and recommendation.
The british elite forces do the jobs of your special forces. eg - Parachute Regiment is very similar to the Rangers. Another thing that surpises me is that from what you've tpyed, you don't have to have already served 3 years in the services to join the special forces.
Marine Infantry and British Royal Marines are waaaaayyyyy different. A basic Infantryman is what the Corps is comprised of and there are thousands of them. They are better trained and less numerous than Army infantrymen and fulfill a number of roles. They usually are accompanied by Tank, Artillery and Air support. They are by no means commandos in any way, shape or form. And as far as Force is concerned I left out time at Battalion Recon as well, which I am not positive is mandatory, but I'm pretty sure it is.
Well I forgot you have to spend time in Ranger Battalion. Slipped my mind.
Maybe the US is, but it's probably the most important part of the British infantry training.Quote:
Army Basic Training is a joke, it's everything that comes afterwards that is important.
How is Basic more important than advanced school? sure you learn how to fight and such but the fact that all Basic Trainings must be somewhat standard from person to person and that a pouge and a grunt get trained the same there makes it very different to those who are infantry bound.Quote:
Originally posted by Brit Twit
Maybe the US is, but it's probably the most important part of the British infantry training.
SPANISH UNIDAD OPERACIONES ESPECIALES! BAR NONE.Quote:
Originally posted by TheWizard
Who is the best special forces?
I think the seals. There is a TV show on about them right now. They look mean as hell. :P
http://www.specwarnet.com/europe/UOE_01.jpg
"The UOE armory is well stocked with a variety of locally produced and foreign manufactured weapons. Pistols are known to include Llama 82B 9mm with laser aiming devices and sound suppressers. Rifles include the CETME Model L 5.56mm assault rifle, but it will soon be replaced by the HK G-36 5.56mm rifle. Submachine-guns consist of the sound suppressed 9mm Patchett/Sterling Mk. 5 which is usually modified to accept a laser aiming device. Sniper rifles consist of the Mauser SP 66 7.62 mm rifle. Machine-guns consist of the locally produced Ameli 5.56mm light machine gun. and the US M-60 7.62mm GPMG. the unit has also contracted a local company to produced a specially designed "commando" dagger to meet its many needs."
They have the most intensive training in the world.
"Prospective unit operators are drawn from the ranks of experienced TEAR personnel. Volunteers must have served at least one year in a TEAR operational unit before being allowed to submit themselves for selection. Selection is harsh, and is designed to weed out those who do not meet the units exacting standards. Candidates are exposed to a number of exercises designed to test their physical and mental stamina. During selection the candidates are push to, and beyond their perceived physical limits. UOE's training cadre evaluates how the trainees perform under fire, using verbal abuse, intensive physical exercise, and long distance endurance marches with heavy ruck sacks, to gauge their responses. Live fire training exercises are conducted to see if they will panic, or hesitate at a crucial moment during combat. During the most intensive phase of selection, students are taken led on a three long survival exercise that accounts for approximately half the selection course failures."
http://www.specwarnet.com/europe/UOE.htm
Actually to be objective and fair, the Republic of Korea Marines are touted as the most elite infantry men (not sure about special operations) in the world. This is why
On August 17, 1950, Korean forces executed amphibious operations without any help from the UN for the first time. In only three days, one ROK Marine battalion wiped out an entire North Korean battalion, including their commander. After the battle, New York Times reporter Chickins wrote a headline describing the ROK Marines' performance titled "They Might Even Capture the Devil".
RoK Marines aint nothin to fuck with
Do you have any information on more recent training? The UOE (Spanish Elite Marines) have taken part in operations throughout the world (including Africa, once or twice in Latin America and many times in the Balkans). You are taking about a skirmish that happened more than 50 years ago.
It seems to me that all these claims about one nation's Special Forces training being harder or more intense than another are pretty much impossible to prove.
Well I did provide facts on how the UOE train and it is in some of the toughest requirements and conditions in the world.Quote:
Originally posted by Mosquito
It seems to me that all these claims about one nation's Special Forces training being harder or more intense than another are pretty much impossible to prove.
I'd disagree but that is my own opinion. I would also say your statement isn't an fact, just another opinion.Quote:
Originally posted by Chimpanzee
SAS selection is considered the hardest in the world.
"It seems to me that all these claims about one nation's Special Forces training being harder or more intense than another are pretty much impossible to prove."Quote:
Originally posted by Giancarlo
I'd disagree but that is my own opinion. I would also say your statement isn't an fact, just another opinion.
You said earlier that the UOE had 'the most intensive training in the world'. Can you prove that? The excerpt you posted on the previous page said nothing about the intensity of the UOE's compared to other other nations.
I meant one of the most intensive trainings in the world and one of the most rigorous selection processes. Noticing I did not say "one of the most" I will correct myself right now.Quote:
Originally posted by Mosquito
"It seems to me that all these claims about one nation's Special Forces training being harder or more intense than another are pretty much impossible to prove."
You said earlier that the UOE had 'the most intensive training in the world'. Can you prove that? The excerpt you posted on the previous page said nothing about the intensity of the UOE's compared to other other nations.
Giancarlo everyone has intensive training, especially if your unit is from a smaller country and will deal with Close Quarters Combat and Counter-Terrorism.
Whats the point in doing advanced inf. if you don't know how to read a map? Or clean your weapon?Quote:
How is Basic more important than advanced school? sure you learn how to fight and such but the fact that all Basic Trainings must be somewhat standard from person to person and that a pouge and a grunt get trained the same there makes it very different to those who are infantry bound.
who? :confused:Quote:
SPANISH UNIDAD OPERACIONES ESPECIALES! BAR NONE.
missed this:
Well i've only heard of them from websites. most Special Forces if they are healfway decent have a reputation.Quote:
I meant one of the most intensive trainings in the world and one of the most rigorous selection processes. Noticing I did not say "one of the most" I will correct myself right now.
UK - SAS
US - Seals
Russia - Spetznaz
Canada - JTF2
I'm not saying they aren't elite among Spanish troops, but how do they compare with other countrie's SF?
Basic Training serves to convert civilian to serviceman, and that is very important but I dont know how many times I've heard "at OCS youll do it this way but in the fleet it's completely different". Training commands and your unit are 2 COMPLETELY different things, and while you learn valuable skills at those commands your advanced schools teach you WAY more relevant things that you will use in day to day operations.Quote:
Originally posted by Brit Twit
Whats the point in doing advanced inf. if you don't know how to read a map? Or clean your weapon?
VERY WELL INDEED. :mad: And they do have the reputation for having some of the most brutal training. Another elite unit in our country is the Spanish Legion. Which also has incredibly brutal training. Also you shouldn't list the Spetsnaz because they rack up a history of atrocities (for example in Chechnya).Quote:
Originally posted by Brit Twit
I'm not saying they aren't elite among Spanish troops, but how do they compare with other countrie's SF?
Just because some SS did some atrocious things, doesn't mean others wern't great fighters as well.Quote:
Originally posted by Giancarlo
VERY WELL INDEED. :mad: And they do have the reputation for having some of the most brutal training. Another elite unit in our country is the Spanish Legion. Which also has incredibly brutal training. Also you shouldn't list the Spetsnaz because they rack up a history of atrocities (for example in Chechnya).
Everyone has brutal training, it's the nature of the military. It's the things that make a specific unit unique (service record, mission type, versatility) that would make it the best.
The Spetsnaz is not a good fighting force.Quote:
Originally posted by crazyboi
Just because some SS did some atrocious things, doesn't mean others wern't great fighters as well.
Everyone has brutal training, it's the nature of the military. It's the things that make a specific unit unique (service record, mission type, versatility) that would make it the best.
I heard the UOE and Spanish Legion had the most brutal training in the world, but that is what I heard.
read this plsQuote:
Originally posted by Giancarlo
The Spetsnaz is not a good fighting force.
I heard the UOE and Spanish Legion had the most brutal training in the world, but that is what I heard.
http://www.airpower.maxwell.af.mil/a...-dec/boyd.html
...From who? When I am around men who have been in Special Operations units and have never heard of the UOE or the Spanish Legion it makes me skeptical.
Edit: I can't even find them on specialoperations.com
1986? The Soviet Union is no longer around. After 1991, Russia suffered a massive military cut back.Quote:
Originally posted by crazyboi
read this pls
http://www.airpower.maxwell.af.mil/a...-dec/boyd.html
...From who? When I am around men who have been in Special Operations units and have never heard of the UOE or the Spanish Legion it makes me skeptical.
Edit: I can't even find them on specialoperations.com
I don't know what you are talking about. The Spanish Legion is a force that has a big history behind it.
Russia's military has more officers than soldiers in its military now... *sigh* France's GIGN is very capable...
The SBS can do anything the SAS can do but with flippers on!
The reason you think that is because you're related to Spain. There's few difference between units, unless you are comparing, for example, Germany and Colombia.
Comparing the SBS and the SAS would be more or less like comparing Ronaldo and Michael Jordan.
Depends on the situation. I've heard hype about the SAS, but our Delta boys could take them out in an urban setting, easy. In a woodland setting, my bud in the 10th Special Forces group, stationed in Ft.Carson, would jump all over a chance to teach those SAS boys how to fight in the woods. If it's an amphibous landing, nobody is going to beat the SEALS. It all depends on the mission. I've seen the SAS do extractions and disarm hostage takers. Good job, but I've also seen green berets bring in Mr. Sad-um.
Its all a matter of opinion, since most of the information regarding (at least the US's) SOCOM won't make it out to the public. But if I were a betting man, I'd put my money on the yanks ;)
What makes you think the SAS aren't capable of fighting in urban areas? (You do know that the SAS trains Delta, don't you?)Quote:
Originally Posted by Renegade_95b
What makes you think the SAS can't fight well in woods?
Also, considering that Hussein surrendered without a fight, why is the Green Berets' capturing him more of an achievement than, for example, the SAS's storming of the Iranian Embassy in 1980?
Also please explain how, in a 5-day exercise in the 90's (forget which year exactly) The SAS found and eliminated the Delta within 24 hours?
Nice and unsupported. The SAS had problems facing up to C grade Argentine troops in the Falklands.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brit Twit
They definitely were in trouble but put up quite a fight in some battles against the supposeably well trained SAS. These were C-grade troops. The SAS was lucky because A-grade Argentine troops were occupied with a border conflict involving Chile. Really the SAS isn't great.
Number one I am not Argentine and not related to Argentina in any way. I am also not Spanish descended. I am Spanish. Again that is pretty much irrelevant.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimpanzee
I'd disagree.Quote:
However looking at the track records, i would say the SAS is pretty much better than great.
I didn't say my country was better than yours.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimpanzee
Now get a clue before you call people fascist who aren't. Have too many rocks in your head?
Well, the yanks beat the brits who trained them 200 years ago. We're capable of doing it again. Of course my invovlement with the armed forces makes me a bit biased ;)
Curious, what's your involvement in the forces?
514th Military Police Company, North Carolina Army National Guard.
Renegade - Americans would only win because of their numbers. if we had equal size forces our troops would wipe the floor with you guys.:-P And we have done on many a training exercise.
Of course your going to say something different; theres too much bias here to actually compare them.
Frankly the performance of the SAS in the Falklands says more about the stubborn defense of the Argentinian troops than the SAS. There are very few incidents where the SAS failed in their mission, they are exceptionally well trained, their most famous operation to date (the Iranian Embassy siege) demonstrated how AT operations should be done (anti-terrorist not anti-tank ;)) and their history before that was excellent, think Mirbat and Oman. These days, its as good though for a different kind of war. Constant service in Northern Ireland makes them a fine OIBUA unit and hones their anti-terrorist skills (which is a huge advantage they have over most special forces, a live training ground, though not so much these days obviously).
The fact is that you can point at the Falklands and say that shows they are not the best, well it was a victory, who can you compare it to? How about Battle of Mogadishu? Maybe Grenada?
And no, I am in no way biased towards the SAS, just look at my avatar!
SZ, the falklands shows the SAS didn't perform well against C-grade troops. I think the SAS is meant for something entirely different than US Special Forces, which are better trained in their own areas. The Battle of Mogadishu though a mess, was handled well by US forces. The Grenada rescue operation was also well done.
First off what specific incident are you referring to in the Falklands? Most of the troops there were not SAS, they were Royal Marines and Paras, Guards, Engineers (but of course, ubique and all that) and line infantry, all of whom performed well against a determined and reasonably good opposing enemy (on what basis do you say C-Grade out of interest?). That is just one incident in an otherwise highely clean history (roughly comparable to mogadishu in fact, though the latter was more of a mess and against worse troops), in fact many of the SAS's successes far outweigh that failiure.
I agree though, from the late 70's the raison d'etre of the sas changed, it was not really suited to such ops and thats why the commandos are used now instead, the sas are used for raids that suit their training better.