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  1. #61
    Milestones is offline
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    Default Re: Hitler: Good, Bad or Neither?


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    Hitler was a Good leader, a master of manipulating the masses; alongside his Propaganda Minister, Josef Goebbels, this enabled him to influence and control many who would otherwise never have become Nazis. This is why he remained in power for twelve years, nine of them remarkably successful.
    This is what separates them from him; he created National Socialism and, in the early days, was driven by a rabid anti-semitism. this was later dampened for, even in the early Thirties, such racism was unsavoury to many Germans.
    Arguments must take into account the huge economic and social recovery undergone during the 1930s; hit harder than many by the Great Depression Weimar Germany was collapsing and it was under the Third Reich that it recovered...unemployment went to ZERO, national pride increased, and Germany was accepted again as a respected European power. Say what you like but under the Fuhrer many would argue, and have even now, that this appeared to herald a golden age for Germany. Thus the regime, Hitler, did do alot of good at the beginning.
    Or did he?
    Many would say the regime was simply fortunate to have attributed to it the natural emergence from economic slump; Hitler actually did very little good for the nation it could be argued.

    Either way, in terms of the man himself; hitler's anti-semitism developed during his time as a tramp on the streets of Vienna where he saw prosperous Jewish business men better off than he was; if was from this that he developed his conspiracy theories and hatred. Of course, antisemitism was common at the time and hitler's theories were therefore not considered evil at the time in themselves. However, as is widely known all we revolted by the revelations of the Allied advance in 1945 wherein the Extermination camps of the SS were uncovered.

    It is worth noting that it was Himmler, Heydrich and others who in fact created the final solution at the Wansee conference during WWII, Hitler was not at the meeting.
    It depends very much as to how you view the power structure within nazi germany as how far you think hitler controlled this solution. i direct you to Ian Kershaw if you wish to know more.

    Hitler was terrifying, not mad, but so embedded within his own neuroses that he came to be what is called Evil.
    He felt betrayed and was thus embittered by Armistice of 1918 and subsequent crippling Treaty of Versailles; the creation and advancement of the Nazi Party was as much a fault of the allies as anyone else.
    He played on the militarism and nationalism within the Prussian elite and population as a whole and this created the spell he had over them.
    By 1945 Hitler was so caught up in his own propaganda myths that he believed himself to be infallible and invincible; you need only look at his handling of the Battle of Stalingrad to prove this. Upon realising his mistake, he shot himself after taking poison.

    Hitler=Good Leader, Propaganda master
    =Raving anti-semite, homophobe, xenophobe, and eugenicist
    =Extreme ideologue and radical production of the beliefs of his time.
    =Leader of the most people and strongest European power for a long time.
    =Mass murderer of Jews, Gypsies, Homosexuals, Poles, disabled, homeless, unemployed.

    Take your pick; for whatever reasons psychologists posit I'm going with evil.


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  2. #62
    Objectivist is offline
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    Default Re: Hitler: Good, Bad or Neither?

    Any man who drives his country into smoldering ruins (end of WWII) cannot be called a good leader.

    Also, anti-Semitism grew in the 1930s. A law in 1933 forced Jewish officials to retire from the civil service and a law in 1935 legally defined who was a Jew. November 9, 1938 marked the infamous Kristalnacht.
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  3. #63
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    Default Re: Hitler: Good, Bad or Neither?

    I'm talking about a mobiliser of the people in regard to 'good leader' rather than where he led Germany in the end which was, undisputably, ruin.

    Yes, anti-semitism as active government policy came about pretty much from the word go in the Third Reich; it had always been a part of Hitler's plans from the 25 Point Programme of the early 20s to the end of the War. The government anti-semitic radicalisation which began at Nuremberg in 1935 and is so demonstrated by the KristallNacht (Night of Crystal/Broken) Pogrom was a result of the chaotic power structure of the regime whereby competing factions submitted ever more extreme policies in the hope of gaining the fuhrer's attention and aid in their promotion and power struggles. It was goebbels idea not hitlers to attack the Jews at this time.

    NO ONE IS SAYING HE WAS A MORALLY GOOD MAN; simply an effective icon for the German people (untill he screwed it up) at a time when they were highly susceptible to the radical, evil, Nazi policies.

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    Default Re: Hitler: Good, Bad or Neither?

    BAD.
    Hitler was definatly bad.
    Just to give some insight i wouldnt of had said this in the past, Anti-semetic people use great propaganda tools to brainwash people, and these tools are the ones that at one time sucked me into believing theyre ideas but thankfully enough i woke up and recognized that anti-semetism is wrong.
    Now obviosuly Hitler was bad as i said, Did he have good intentions? In his own mind sure he did, I dont believe nobody does anything with bad intentions even though much of the time what theyre doing is bad.

  5. #65
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    Penguin Re: Hitler: Good, Bad or Neither?

    Quote Originally Posted by Milestones
    Hitler was a Good leader, a master of manipulating the masses.
    He was most definitely NOT a good leader, he was a good speaker and a good manioulator. He may be able to be considered a good leader if he hadn't thrown out the opinion of his military strategists and tried to win a war himself. He's such a loser.
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  6. #66
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    Default Re: Hitler: Good, Bad or Neither?

    There's more to leadership than military command. Yes, Hitler was a very bad Supreme Commander, but he was a highly effective civilian leader for the majority of his political life.

  7. #67
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    Default Re: Hitler: Good, Bad or Neither?

    Quote:
    <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=3 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by Milestones
    Hitler was a Good leader, a master of manipulating the masses.
    </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
    He was most definitely NOT a good leader, he was a good speaker and a good manioulator. He may be able to be considered a good leader if he hadn't thrown out the opinion of his military strategists and tried to win a war himself. He's such a loser.
    Guys, read the post before saying that; I've already answered that point........2 months ago.
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    Default Re: Hitler: Good, Bad or Neither?

    I think that all men are good, but some are corrupted by hatred and evil, for whatever reason, and driven to madness. Had Hitler been a force for good, think of what aforce he could have been. His power to convince and direct people could have been used so constructively. Its really sad to see the outcome of such a brilliant man turned bad.
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    Default Re: Hitler: Good, Bad or Neither?

    Each person's opinion on this topic will be different depending on their context (one of the only things that has stuck in my mind from year 11 english!). In my own opinion, I believe that Hitler was probably suffering from some mental problems and that he probably thought that he was doing the right thing, but society thought that what he was doing was wrong. I believe that Hitler was a bad person. Hitler can be compared to Saddam Hussein, Osama Bin Laden, and even George Bush and all the other terrorists in the world. All the aforementioned people believe that their actions are what is right, no matter what others say.
    Saddam Hussein believed in dictatorship of a country and that he had the right to choose who would die (and how they would die) and who would live amongst the people of Iraq; Osama Bin Laden believed that America was evil and he hated their ways; while George Bush believed that the correct way to solve a problem was violently - to go to war with another country and remove the object that was causing all the trouble - Saddam Hussein.
    All these leaders have different opinions on many topics, and some may believe they are right, while others believe that what they are doing is wrong.
    Personally, I think that people like this, and Hitler, are bad people and we dont need people like that in the world.

  10. #70
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    Default Re: Hitler: Good, Bad or Neither?

    Quote Originally Posted by Objectivist
    He wasn't gay. He was, however, impotent. I doubt Viagra could have stopped the Holocaust though. Anti-Semitism was at a high point but he is responsible for fomenting quite a bit of it himself. He was just an evil man; that's all there is to say.
    There are studies that show that hitler may have been gay..

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    Default Re: Hitler: Good, Bad or Neither?

    When a man with as much power as Hitler has ideals much the same as Hitler, it allows evil intent to become evil action.
    Strangers passing in the street
    By chance two separate glances meet
    And I am you and what I see is me

    - Pink Floyd - Echoes (Off of the album "Meddle")

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    Default Re: Hitler: Good, Bad or Neither?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gozonji
    Was Hitler in himself a "bad" person?
    Or was he misunderstood?
    Or was he inevitably good?
    Was he crazy?

    This is not so much a debae as philosophy/ethics.
    Hitler as a bad person, meh maybe I guesss you could "label" him that.
    Or was he misunderstood? Of course he was, if he wasn't misunderstood he probably would still be the third reich leader and we would be under him right now.
    Or what he inevtiably good? I think he was inevitably good.
    Was he crazy? Maybe depends on how a person thinks about him.


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    Default Re: Hitler: Good, Bad or Neither?

    Quote Originally Posted by VolcomSkater
    There are studies that show that hitler may have been gay..
    There are studies showing that past life claims are true. So what? All you've proven by saying that is that if you did deeply enough you can find a study that says almost anything.

    There is no credible evidence that hitler was gay, and good reason to believe he was not. His falling out with Ernst Rohn (spelling?), who was gay, was in part a reaction against rohn's "degeneracy."

    One could always claim hitler was a "repressed homosexual" - but of course you can claim that of anyone who is not an out and out homosexual.

    To answer the question posed by the board - hitler was bad, bad to the bone. The hitler apologists ignore or downplay his early actions, but his anti-semitism was longstanding, and he went after jewish people basically from the point where he consolidated power. He went after others as well...the rom (gypsies), communists, gays (!), germans who opposed his regime and/or his tactics. There were all sorts of people hitler didn't like - sadly, he achieved sufficient power to act on his hate...

    Also, sadly, there are always people who discover they can gain attention by being "contrary". re hitler, this takes the form of saying adolf wasn't such a bad guy, or that he was good for a while (usually until the war, occasionally until the war went badly for germany). Sometimes this consists of pointing out his abilities as a speaker or organizer, as if that has any bearing on his relative "goodness" or "badness".

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    Default Re: Hitler: Good, Bad or Neither?

    I think anyone would be pretty pissed with his farther basically dis owning him and then dieing leaving him nothing with his mother also did so he had to live on the streets.


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    Default Re: Hitler: Good, Bad or Neither?

    By anyone's definiton, Hitler was a bad person. He murdered hundreds of millions of people, he destroyed Europe (and his own country), AND he accomplished the one thing he was sworn against: He brought communist Russia into the heart of Europe. I'd say that's all pretty evil by anyone's standards.

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