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Thread: Oh silly atheists...

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    Rhooster is offline
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    Default Oh silly atheists...


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    Why do you do this? Do you really hate Christians enough to invade their forum, their threads that don't really have to do with you? I mean, comment wherever you want, but immediately denying that there is God, there's no way to prove the Bible's real, or that the person is stupid, when the question is something like "What does Luke 11:9 mean to you?", is just inappropriate. You don't have to believe in God, I get that, but wanting everyone else to not believe in God and going right over to there discussions and saying that isn't needed. If its in debates and discussion, great, but if someone doesn't want to have to fight for their beliefs/life style, and instead wants to talk with other believers about something, let them. Part of the reason your doing this is because of the anonymity of the internet, thus being able to say almost anything and hurt anyone. I have many atheist friends in real life, and part of the reason is because they don't tell me what I think is wrong.

    Well, this could have gone on Vent, but anyway you guys need to settle down. Post where you want to post, but try not to tell someone that there wrong about there beliefs all the time.

    *cough*Aelius*cough*


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    Default Re: Oh silly atheists...

    I find it amusing because a great number of them hate it when christians 'force' their beliefs upon them, but they're doing the exact same thing. It's why I don't engage them in conversation any more- total hypocrites

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    Default Re: Oh silly atheists...

    ^^I have to agree...but i can't get started with this thread cause I don't feel like getting comptetitive...



    I'm Mitchell, I am 16, and I'm Bi(: I love Theatre and everything has to do with it...singing, acting, and dance.

    If you ever need someone to talk too...I'm always here for you!


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    Aelius is offline
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    Default Re: Oh silly atheists...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhooster View Post
    Why do you do this? Do you really hate Christians enough to invade their forum, their threads that don't really have to do with you? I mean, comment wherever you want, but immediately denying that there is God, there's no way to prove the Bible's real, or that the person is stupid, when the question is something like "What does Luke 11:9 mean to you?", is just inappropriate.
    First of all, it's not "your forum", it's "our forum".

    All I did was respond to Simon's claim that Luke 11:9 means that "you shall receive a yes or no" by raising the obvious problem with that interpretation. The obvious problem being that it can just as easily apply to Zeus, or any other god, or even inanimate objects, because "yes or no" account for 100% of the possible results.

    There's nothing off topic about that, nor does it even claim that God doesn't exist or the Bible is wrong or that Christians are stupid. You inferred those things because that's what you have characterized atheists to be in your own mind. So whenever an atheist speaks, you immediately apply the cognitive models that you have developed for atheists, regardless of whether or not they're actually valid.

    You don't have to believe in God, I get that, but wanting everyone else to not believe in God and going right over to there discussions and saying that isn't needed. If its in debates and discussion, great, but if someone doesn't want to have to fight for their beliefs/life style, and instead wants to talk with other believers about something, let them.
    I'll take your request into consideration, but I still have a right to post relevant information in any topic in the Philosophy & Debates forum. You do not have the right to decide who can and cannot respond to a thread that you have created.

    Part of the reason your doing this is because of the anonymity of the internet, thus being able to say almost anything and hurt anyone. I have many atheist friends in real life, and part of the reason is because they don't tell me what I think is wrong.
    Trust me, I don't do anything differently online than I do in real life. I alienated many classmates in high school for challenging their religious beliefs which had been virtually unchallenged up until that point in their lives. In any case, it doesn't even matter, because there's no rule saying that I must behave online in the same fashion that I behave in real life.

    Well, this could have gone on Vent, but anyway you guys need to settle down. Post where you want to post, but try not to tell someone that there wrong about there beliefs all the time.
    Sorry, but you don't have the right nor authority to tell me what I can or cannot say. If I believe your beliefs are invalid, I'm going to challenge them. That's what reasonable and rational people do, especially on a forum designed specifically for the purpose of telling other people they're wrong.


    Quote Originally Posted by Títmouse View Post
    I find it amusing because a great number of them hate it when christians 'force' their beliefs upon them, but they're doing the exact same thing. It's why I don't engage them in conversation any more- total hypocrites
    If you're beating someone over the head with a stick, and I take your stick away, I'm not forcing my beliefs on you. I'm preventing you from forcing your beliefs onto someone else. In any case, it's an irrelevant point because no one was stopping the Christian from asking his question, nor was the Christian forcing his belief on us by asking it.

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    Default Re: Oh silly atheists...

    Judging from my personal experiences (IRL and a couple of forums), I think that aside from their beliefs, most of religious people and atheists are pretty much the same: they both try to force their opinions.

    I always percieved faith and religion as something strictly personal, so I can't stand neither Christians/Muslims/etc. that try to convert people to their respective religions and insult atheists, nor atheists that always speak ill of the chuch and call religious people ignorant and such. Everyone should live their own life as they want to.
    the.arn and 16siverlingd like this.
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    Default Re: Oh silly atheists...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaizer View Post
    Judging from my personal experiences (IRL and a couple of forums), I think that aside from their beliefs, most of religious people and atheists are pretty much the same: they both try to force their opinions.

    I always percieved faith and religion as something strictly personal, so I can't stand neither Christians/Muslims/etc. that try to convert people to their respective religions and insult atheists, nor atheists that always speak ill of the chuch and call religious people ignorant and such. Everyone should live their own life as they want to.
    No atheist believes that other people should not be able to live their lives as they want. All atheists attempt to do is persuade people that their beliefs are unfounded.

    If you lived in a society where 90% of the population believes in Santa Claus, would you consider it wrong for a-Santa-Clausists to try and engage the Santa-Clausists in debate and discussion?

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    Default Re: Oh silly atheists...

    Quote Originally Posted by Aelius View Post
    No atheist believes that other people should not be able to live their lives as they want. All atheists attempt to do is persuade people that their beliefs are unfounded.

    If you lived in a society where 90% of the population believes in Santa Claus, would you consider it wrong for a-Santa-Clausists to try and engage the Santa-Clausists in debate and discussion?
    As I said, I'm judging from personal experience and most of them are like this. I'm sure there are atheists that are pretty fine with religious people and only try to debate.

    Also, no. As long as it stays only in debate and not personal attacks (from either side).
    ...slide.

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    Default Re: Oh silly atheists...

    ^^

    this thread is really funny.

    so, you may or may not know this. i am christian. however, i don't try to let anyone in on my religion. so, it's pretty hardcore for people to say that "christians like to throw their religion on others." that's like saying "athiest all smell."

    some might, but not all do. gosh, get with the program and just let each other believe what they want.

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    Aelius is offline
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    Default Re: Oh silly atheists...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaizer View Post
    As I said, I'm judging from personal experience and most of them are like this. I'm sure there are atheists that are pretty fine with religious people and only try to debate.

    Also, no. As long as it stays only in debate and not personal attacks (from either side).
    You honestly expect me to believe that there's a significant number of atheists - even a small minority - who actually don't want other people to be allowed to believe what they want to believe?

    I'm incredulous. I do not believe that there exists any significant population of atheists that wants to deny other people the right to believe what they want to believe.

    Can you give me specific examples?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bogumil View Post
    ^^

    this thread is really funny.

    so, you may or may not know this. i am christian. however, i don't try to let anyone in on my religion. so, it's pretty hardcore for people to say that "christians like to throw their religion on others." that's like saying "athiest all smell."

    some might, but not all do. gosh, get with the program and just let each other believe what they want.
    No one is saying "100% of Christians want to force their religion onto others". No one is saying that other people don't have the right to believe what they want.

    This thread is full of unsubstantiated accusations; I don't know how many times I have to repeatedly say "but no one is saying that!"

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    Default Re: Oh silly atheists...

    no, not just you. also people who do the same like for "atheist people...." except if it's something true, like don't believe in god.

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    Aelius is offline
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    Default Re: Oh silly atheists...

    Quote Originally Posted by Bogumil View Post
    no, not just you. also people who do the same like for "atheist people...." except if it's something true, like don't believe in god.
    You seem to be saying that people shouldn't generalize, am I right? Here's the problem, though. The group of people known as "atheists" amounts to several hundred million people worldwide. There is no quality or descriptor that you can use to apply to 100% of all members of a group that large, except for trivial or tautological things like "100% of them do not believe in a god" or "100% of them are human", etc.

    Generalizations are necessary in order to denote tendencies and common elements and descriptors of a group. "African Americans have unique problems related to poverty", for example, is a necessary generalization. We cannot have a conversation about racial inequalities and civil rights if we don't express as a generalization the overall tendency for black people in the United States to be impoverished. You could never have a meaningful conversation about a large group of people if you do not generalize.

    However, that said, it is wrong to immediately accuse a member of that group of possessing a quality that is typical for members of that group. For instance, saying "you're black, therefore you're a criminal!" is applying a generalization to an individual. We call this "prejudice"; or "to pre-judge someone". For the same reason that it's wrong to accuse a black person of being a criminal on the basis of his ethnicity, it is similarly wrong to accuse an individual Christian of forcing his/her beliefs on to others. This is exactly why I don't do that.

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    Default Re: Oh silly atheists...

    God Aelius, you're fucking stupid. Of course after putting up multiple threads about how what you just said wasn't an attack against their faith, but instead some kind of smart ass statement gets annoying for the religious, and gets them thinking your out for them. And don't give me any of that "I didn't mean that, I meant THAT" or that the other person doesn't know what their talking about shit.

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    Default Re: Oh silly atheists...

    Quote Originally Posted by Bogumil View Post
    i am christian. however, i don't try to let anyone in on my religion.
    It makes sense he would think that though, as evangelism/spreading the word/conversion is a MASSIVE component of Christianity and the bible (not just evangelical Christianity, but most main forms of Christianity).

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    Default Re: Oh silly atheists...

    Quote Originally Posted by Aelius View Post
    You honestly expect me to believe that there's a significant number of atheists - even a small minority - who actually don't want other people to be allowed to believe what they want to believe?

    I'm incredulous. I do not believe that there exists any significant population of atheists that wants to deny other people the right to believe what they want to believe.

    Can you give me specific examples?
    Like, when most atheists heard that I believe in God (despite being accused by many hardcore religion fans as a non-believer because I wouldn't follow everything church says, and I don't because half of them are bullshit priests/religious leaders (a.k.a. hypocrites) made up) responsed with "Are you stupid/ignorant/gullible?" or "It's because of people like you that progress is slowed down" and such.
    I have also heard many people say that "the world would definitely be better without religion" and etc. Speaking ill of churches/religion in general and failing to understand that some people want to believe in a higher deity, and not affecting them at all.

    Also, you don't need to be absolute; in every opinion/belief (not only religious) there are extremists who battle the opposite ones constantly. I don't think they're a majority, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aelius View Post
    No one is saying "100% of Christians want to force their religion onto others". No one is saying that other people don't have the right to believe what they want.

    This thread is full of unsubstantiated accusations; I don't know how many times I have to repeatedly say "but no one is saying that!"
    Dude, no one accused anyone. And (going a bit off-topic), while you have mostly correct opinions and you have very nice arguments, you give the impression that you are trying to create tension. Might be wrong about it, though, because I barely know you.
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    Aelius is offline
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    Default Re: Oh silly atheists...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dolphin Hunter View Post
    God Aelius, you're fucking stupid. Of course after putting up multiple threads about how what you just said wasn't an attack against their faith, but instead some kind of smart ass statement gets annoying for the religious, and gets them thinking your out for them. And don't give me any of that "I didn't mean that, I meant THAT" or that the other person doesn't know what their talking about shit.
    I know what I do is annoying for religious people. When did I ever say that I wasn't? When people point out how a particular worldview is incorrect, the people who hold that worldview tend to react in an annoyed fashion. What's your point? Challenging other peoples' viewpoints, whether they're annoyed by it or not, is the fundamental component of debating.

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