Bashing...

[fluffy_bunny]

Okay, hello everyone, I am an american, but you see, I have been traversing the web for a while, exploring everything possible and i have come to one assertation that I have arrived at many times before, but this time i have a voice to express it. Ever since the war on terror began, and america wanted to do what it wanted to do and the world wanted to do something else, I have heard sooo much antifrance, antigermany, antiUN, that I want to scream. Im SICK of it. Life is too prescious to waste time on hatred. I dont care, who you are, what country you live in, how powerful that country is, or how stupid you think the other guy is, everyone does something for a reason and the united states is not the (only) one with a clear head in the world. France did something they though was right, so did germany, so did every country, THEY OWE US NOTHING! no matter how many wars you bring up, or how much aid, or how many times someone brings up the fact that "erda erda er, those towers fell so that constitutes our right to send everyone to hell who doesnt agree with us". I agree that some of the war on terror is completely and continuously justified. . . but if they dont want to help us, they dont have to. It was our choice to give them aid or help them in a war or disaster. With websights like invadecanada.us or invadefrance.us its a wonder they havn't done more than feal disgruntled toward us.

[karlmarxstadt]

Quite right. But what parts on the war on terror do u agree on, I hope not the invasion if iraq, cos really terrorism wasnt happeneing there.

[exposinglies]

No not happening there, just the fact that iraq harbored terrorists. Europe should back us up for one simple fucking reason, if there is a disaster or something, they dont ask us for help, its pretty much demanded. Why? Because we are the most power country in the world. If we dont give it to them, we are the bad guys. We ask them for help, they call us murderers. The next disaster, they will ask us for help. We will give it to them. Thats they way it is. With out us, france, germany, and the rest of those ungratefull bastards would not be able to survive. If they would make it just fine with out us, they would not ask us for help every time something bad happens.

[The_Rezovor]

I strongly am against the war because dubya kept pounding into our heads that Saddam had a connection with the attacks which is completely false.

[exposinglies]

no connection with the attacks but iraq had connection with al-qauda. They helped an aided the terrorists, a top officer got medical treatement in baghdad.

[fluffy_bunny]

for one thing, i agreed with the War in Afghanistan and thats about it. I openly spoke against the war in Iraq until we actually got there. I feel that if you dont support the men and women that are fighting is pretty unpatriotic regardless of what country you are from. I also think that maybe we should have waited to go into Iraq after the UN approved of it. That should be the body that oversees who goes where and why. And even if we went there without the UN's approval (which i could only hope we dont do), at least finish the first war we went into first. Im not an anti-american american, I will support every decision that our county makes, but I can only agree with the decisions that make logical sense. Invading a country simply on the "hunch" that they might be harboring weapons of mass destruction or terrorists isnt very smart or logical. And throwing hatred at other people and countries simply because they dont support your idea is also a very unintelligent thing to do. Many of our fellow americans have broken this whole thing down into a sort of "well, jimmy hit me and i'm kinda done with my revenge, but i think that carl gave him the baseball bat so ill beat him up too, and if you guys dont help me beat carl up, screw you". Anyway thats what ive been seeing around my school. ill be back...

[exposinglies]

The un would never go into iraq. Never will. Their is too much curruption between the UN and iraq. Money for oil. Huge amounts of money(billions) were placed into the pockets of the french, germans, and the the team incharge of finding curruption. Fluffy, i believe your are mistaken. It was no hunch. 3 countries leading intelligence agencies said iraq had wmd. They did not, but what they did have were a shitload of missles that THEY WERE NOT SUPPOSED TO HAVE. I have asked this question 10000000000 times and no one fucking answers me. How many times do you say, no you cant have that, before enough is enough and something is done? In this case it was 14 times and going for a 15th when we said, hey thats it. You have 48 hours or were coming in. He did nothing, we went in.

[Africa]

. 3 countries leading intelligence agencies said iraq had wmd. They did not,
What does that tell us about the intellegence agencies of those countries?

(UK, USA and Russia, I believe.)

[fluffy_bunny]

For one thing, it is not, never has been, and never will be America's job to babysit other nations. Some people in our country (im only guessing you're american) choose to believe that that is America's job, but our first job should always be to our people first. Choosing to send them off to war durring a recession, another war, and in the middle of deep political animosity is not helping our people to survive. We should, before anything else, observe, say what we think, and let other countries do whatever they want to do. In the case of Iraq, yes, they were run by a madman who attempted to commit genocide on his countrymen, but dont you think that we should finish one war before we start a new one? We started a war in Afghanistan, why would we want to start anouther one before we have even finished the first. We still have troops in that country, and, regardless of what CNN or ABC says, things arn't all peachy keen there. Much of the country is still under the rule of warlords in particular areas. But back to the subject. I think that many countries hate us because we do whatever we want regardless of what they say. The UN was the brainchild of an american (FDR) and the reason why we dont follow it is still unknown to me. If we want to show other countries how to act and behave, we should listen to the rules we ourselves helped to set down, not act without permission or logic. Throwing our weight around isnt going to win us many friends as we already know, and pretty soon, someone might just push back.

[ghostwork]

Money for oil.yeah because blood for oil is sooooooooooo much better.

[exposinglies]

o im sorry. I did not know our mission was to get oil from iraq. If we wanted to start a war for oil, south america is a better choice. Better oil, more of it, and its closer. You fucking dip shit. I guess you dont care that 25 million people are free. Or that a million died under saddam. The war in afghanistan was completed. Its not ready for us to leave yet, but then again, after ww2 was declared over, our troops still stayed in areas. And i dont think that liberal ass fucks at cnn would ever say its peachy. Fluffy, your a fucking moron. The un is shit. Name ONE thing it did sucessfully in the past 20 years. Do it. O wait, you cant. They UN is a place for the unamericans to sit, drink coffee, and enjoy the insane freedoms we give them. Syria in charge of the disarmament committee? Wtf? Libya ran the human rights committee? Wtf? Who brought down the Soviet Union? The UN? No. Who then, if the great alimight UN didnt? We did. Did we get credit for it? No. Reagan brought the soviet union down. Does he get credit for it? No.
Your mother fucking right its not our job to baby sit other nations. Tell the UN that the next time the demand we give them billions of dollars to aid some peice of shit little african nation.

[bham-boi]

THE UNITED NATIONS SUCCEEDS
AT FAILING

By: Jim Moore

Besides squatting on a priceless chunk of Manhattan real estate costing millions of taxpayer dollars to maintain, and an agenda that includes swapping America's sovereignty for membership in a New World Order, just what the hell good is the United Nations to us anyway?

Don't answer that. I have a better question.

Why are we still waltzing around on American soil with this ineffectual, socialistic, dangerous-to-individual-freedoms institution?

In every global military threat, the UN, in its self-appointed position of peacemaker, has been either a no-show, a johnny-come-lately, or a hands-off bystander when the fracas gets hot. So much for separating the combatants and keeping the peace.

And the latest example of the UN's perennial "non-involvement" can be seen in the recent cry for help from the Middle East.

When Israel defied the UN and blocked an inquiry into Palestinian claims of a civilian massacre in the refugee camp at Jenin, UN investigators simply shrugged and left. And what did UN Secretary Kofi Annan do? Absolved the UN by saying they had done everything possible to meet Israeli demands and might disband their investigative mission.

Whoa, horse! What Israeli demands? What puts Israel in a position to demand anything from the United Nations investigating a possible atrocity?

It's obvious why the fox wants nobody looking into the chicken coop. But I don't understand why the UN hasn't kicked the fox in the butt and gotten on with their job.

And these are the guys talking about a Global Police Force. The very same guys, by the way, who are attempting to build a Brave New World using the Musketeer's old saw: "One for All, and All for One" as its rallying cry.

In my lexicon that spells socialism, and that spells danger for a free America.

Oh, but you ask, how could the United Nations be a socialist organization and have its headquarters in New York, the "capitalist" center of the United States? I don't know. But I do know this: if you want to see which direction any large organization is going, follow the mindset of at head honchos.

Do that, and you'll quickly see why the United Nations has been not only ineffectual in handling untoward situations worldwide, but is hardly the kind of organization that should have residence in Manhattan, much less any influence on American sovereignty and freedom.

Allow me to introduce those head honchos, starting with the first UN Secretary General Alger Hiss, who was, believe it or not, a Soviet spy.

Next came a Norwegian socialist Trygve Lie. Then came Swedish socialist Dag Hammarskjold, followed by Burmese Marxist U Thant, then Austrian former Nazi Kurt Waldheim. After Waldheim came Peruvian socialist Javier Perez de Cuellar; then Egyptian socialist Boutros Boutros-Ghali, and finally Kofi Annan of Ghana, not exactly nationalistic in his thinking.

Each of these gentlemen has used the full resources of the UN to promote Communism and/or socialism around the world.

In my book, the United Nations is a two-edge sword with only one sharp edge. It's impotent when it comes to maintaining world peace, but it's powerful at building a New World Order by destroying the sovereignty of free nations.

America, watch your back.

Disband the U.N.

[Kard]

I'm just wondering when they intend on catching bin laden. He'll be dead and gone before they ever catch up with him it seems.

[exposinglies]

i dont know. Ask fmr president clinton why he personally turned down the oppurtunity to get bin laden in 1996. I mean come on, actually offered by saudi arabia to be extridited to the us, and he turns it down. To busy smoking those pussy cigars i suppose

[fluffy_bunny]

o im sorry. I did not know our mission was to get oil from iraq. If we wanted to start a war for oil, south america is a better choice. Better oil, more of it, and its closer. You fucking dip shit. I guess you dont care that 25 million people are free. Or that a million died under saddam. The war in afghanistan was completed. Its not ready for us to leave yet, but then again, after ww2 was declared over, our troops still stayed in areas. And i dont think that liberal ass fucks at cnn would ever say its peachy. Fluffy, your a fucking moron. The un is shit. Name ONE thing it did sucessfully in the past 20 years. Do it. O wait, you cant. They UN is a place for the unamericans to sit, drink coffee, and enjoy the insane freedoms we give them. Syria in charge of the disarmament committee? Wtf? Libya ran the human rights committee? Wtf? Who brought down the Soviet Union? The UN? No. Who then, if the great alimight UN didnt? We did. Did we get credit for it? No. Reagan brought the soviet union down. Does he get credit for it? No.
Your mother fucking right its not our job to baby sit other nations. Tell the UN that the next time the demand we give them billions of dollars to aid some peice of shit little african nation.lets go throu the list here...hmmm...let me see...first of all, South American oil, not NEARLY as much of it, the 25 million people that are "free" are being killed daily now in our effort to continue the "freedom" that we gave them. How many will die before this war is ended. They are civilians. Afghanistan isnt done, it is about as done as Iraq, people are still fighting, we are still patroling everything, people are still being deployed there. Yes your words about WW2 are true, but we were regarded as an occupying nation in those countries. Thats not my idea of finished. Who brought down the Solviet Union...hmmmm let me thing... does Gaborvichec (sp) have any meaning to you, or Boris Yeltson?

I would like to see you sight some of the facts that you have presented here, because it only sounds like you are presenting your own opinions as facts. Oh and by the way, you've proved my point, some americans are way too consumed with hatred. It shouldn't suprise me comming from someone who openly hates someone with a different point of view then himself. maybe if you ever kept an open mind, you might see some truth. oh well...lets talk again some time okay? :)

oh yeah...and your question about the one good thing they've done in the past 20 years...Getting rid of the Yugoslavian dictator...you know...the guy that tried to kill all of his people?

[PWNAGE]

Im totally against this war now, but i was for it before we hit the 300 mark on death toll.

The USMC trains killers, not police. and they arent killing anything. they are policing it. i think the Military needs some new blood. them damn tacticians are retarded, and bush is more retarded for not pulling out and letting the UN deal with it

[exposinglies]

God sarge, i respected your opinions on most things before, but no more. The UN WOULD NEVER GO IN! You think they would stop stealing and do something? They have not done anything except spend our money in over 20 years. Useless peices of shit. We cant pull out now. Not now, not for a while. Atleast not until their election is over. You libs bitch about america policing the world, but once an earth quake or a disaster hits another country, its our responsibility to send them billions of dollars. To free 25 million people? Not our problem. You got your shit backwards people.

[Africa]

If you want to pull out of the UN, please do. But when it gives the go ahead to invade you sometime in the distant future and there is nothing legal you can do to stop that, don't come crying to me sonny.

[wysoft]

But when it gives the go ahead to invade you sometime in the distant future and there is nothing legal you can do to stop that, don't come crying to me sonny.

Boy, that sure would be a hilarious bloodbath for the pathetic UN forces.

[fluffy_bunny]

There is a difference from policing the world and sending humanitarian aid. 25 billion dollars is better spent when it keeps people alive who have been in a disaster. WE created the problems in Iraq this time. Not Sadam, we baited him by demanding something we knew he would never do and destroyed him for it. We were judge, jury, and executioner for the government of Iraq. How, in american history has this been a democratic solution to the situation? I notice that the supreme court doesnt opperate this way, so why should the rest of America?

[Africa]

What, the US against the rest of the world?

Who would win??

[Mosquito]

No one, it would be nuclear holocaust.

[exposinglies]

Holy shit, when was saddam declared innocent of the hundreds of thousands he had executed, personally or in weapons testing, or the million that died under his reign?

[fluffy_bunny]

It isnt our job period


I understand what your saying and i agree with quite a bit of it, this thread started out that we should not hate people for differing views, and look, I am even unable to cope with it. I guess some things are harder to learn...or harder to teach.

[exposinglies]

no but what im saying that, no its not our job, but the world demands our help. They dont ask for it, its demanded.

[Faster]

The deaths of the million that died under his reign (500,000 of the 1,000,000 were children) can be attributed to United States decade long medievil style seige on Iraq banning the importation of food and medicine.

[Leftover_Salmon]

God sarge, i respected your opinions on most things before, but no more. The UN WOULD NEVER GO IN! You think they would stop stealing and do something? They have not done anything except spend our money in over 20 years. Useless peices of shit. We cant pull out now. Not now, not for a while. Atleast not until their election is over. You libs bitch about america policing the world, but once an earth quake or a disaster hits another country, its our responsibility to send them billions of dollars. To free 25 million people? Not our problem. You got your shit backwards people.
Was Saddam a tyrant? Yes. But did 95% of the population ACTUALLY have to worry about him and his execution squads? No.

Now all Iraqis have to live in fear that a bomb might go off at any time. If you call THAT freedom...

[exposinglies]

Where is your information that supports that claim? I dont see any. His people lived in fear. They want us there. Ask any soldier that has seen them

[exposinglies]

The deaths of the million that died under his reign (500,000 of the 1,000,000 were children) can be attributed to United States decade long medievil style seige on Iraq banning the importation of food and medicine.
source. Where the fuck is your source. I posted a huge ass list of sources under the name Minitrucker 84 that broke down the deaths. There was NOTHING that had to do with the united states.

[Faster]

Was Saddam a tyrant? Yes. But did 95% of the population ACTUALLY have to worry about him and his execution squads? No.Very true. Our CIA provides us with information about countries and how their government works. I don't read the CIA reports, but I have read synopsis of the CIA reports on Iraq the confirm your perception of Iraq (although not which such hyperbole)

Although I don't think it was quite as high as 95%. Most of his population was ambivalent and liked the stability he provided.

The only people who had trouble in Iraq were the groups of people that threatened Saddam's power and a certain minority of tribes.

There are much worse dictators in other countries. Many of them sponsored by the US (i.e. East Timor, Guatemala, Philipines, Vietnam, Cuba, El Salvador, Iran, ect...) Many of these dictators were overthrown by popular uprisings though.

The United States during the 90s actively aided and supported Indonesia. The weapons we gave them are responsible for the deaths 200,000 people in East Timor (Their population was roughly 500,000 before our intervention).

[Faster]

source. Where the fuck is your source.UNICEF reported that 500,000 children died as a result of the sanctions.

The brutality of the sanctions (the word medievil seige would be more appropriate) was widely reported by independent (and some mainstream) media in the 90s.

[Kezz]

those towers fell so that constitutes our right to send everyone to hell who doesnt agree with us

How does the towers falling constitute it? Just because two towers collapsed in New York city that gives you the right to bomb torture and kill as many people as you like including innocent civilians. You’re pretty screwed up.

I would think it was rather that innocent civilians from all over the world who worked in those two towers who where killed in a senseless act of destruction that constituted the capture and punishment of THE PEOPLE RESPONSIBLE. NOT the invasion of the 3rd largest oil producing nation for no particular reason other than to torture and murder civilians and “why are you invading my country?” fighters.

[The_Rezovor]

It's also to note that our "smart bombs" actually hit citizen houses when they were suppose to hit 5 miles away!, Or how about the Diner that was hit with a smart bomb and killed innocent people because we "thought" saddam was in there when there was no proof...

Should someone bomb a diner where you are having dinner because they think a serial killer is in there? Would you accept your death, even though that killer was not actually in there?

Let's also talk about how we have already killed far more citizens in Iraq then died on sept 11th.. How would you feel toward the USA if you found out a usa smart guided bomb missed it's target and killed your daughter? Well that's what happened to many people in Iraq.

[horniboi2]

Uhh...yeah, we are not killing people for OIL! We went over there to take down the terrorists and build a better country for those poor people. It's not our fault that there are other terrorists in that country that want us out and want us dea...it is human nature to retaliate...it's not America's fault or the president's fault or anyone else's fault we can't find the real terrorist, Osama Bin Laden, he had plenty of time to hide or run and it is a freakin' country, man. He could be anywhere! Also, about the wmd, they also had time to hide those, maybe send them to Russia, or some secret place in Baghdad. Not everything in the world is right on top of the surface!
Also, about youu thinking America hates France and Germany...they were rioting against Americans because we asked if they would help us. They were angry becuase we thought they were friends and now we can't trust tehm to help us again.

[horniboi2]

It's also to note that our "smart bombs" actually hit citizen houses when they were suppose to hit 5 miles away!, Or how about the Diner that was hit with a smart bomb and killed innocent people because we "thought" saddam was in there when there was no proof...

Should someone bomb a diner where you are having dinner because they think a serial killer is in there? Would you accept your death, even though that killer was not actually in there?

Let's also talk about how we have already killed far more citizens in Iraq then died on sept 11th.. How would you feel toward the USA if you found out a usa smart guided bomb missed it's target and killed your daughter? Well that's what happened to many people in Iraq.
-A serial killer is a lot less threatening than a terrorist! And the smart bombs...yeah, maybe they did hit a diner by ACCIDENT! We're fighting a war for God's sake! not everything can be as precisely measured as a bomb.

[The_Rezovor]

we are not killing people for OIL!

This is a OIL war, I cannot believe that you cannot see that. The saudi's were the highjackers but why are we not killing them? Because they give us oil!


yeah, maybe they did hit a diner by ACCIDENT!

Accident my ass! How about a bomb hitting a city and killing over 1000 people? didnt hear about that did you? Yet it's true.. The media is keeping alot of things from us.

[Africa]

This morning - news that yesterday an American Smart Bomb hit a house "believed" by the American Military to be a place where Militants planned attacks and lived. Whether these particular militants were killed is unknown, but Iraqi hospitals have reported that a wedding was going on at that time, and a man and his seven sons were killed, as well as 4 women and 6 children injured. These people were not militants. How smart is the Smart Bomb if it kills at least 8 to kill one or two?

The Iraqi authorities have denied reports of any casualties. So what was the point of bombing then?

[The_Rezovor]

Exactly what I mean! We are killing off innocent bystanders and even a wedding! That is just plain sad and a very bad decision by the american military. Thus why I do not support the war in Iraq.

[fluffy_bunny]

How does the towers falling constitute it? Just because two towers collapsed in New York city that gives you the right to bomb torture and kill as many people as you like including innocent civilians. You’re pretty screwed up.

I would think it was rather that innocent civilians from all over the world who worked in those two towers who where killed in a senseless act of destruction that constituted the capture and punishment of THE PEOPLE RESPONSIBLE. NOT the invasion of the 3rd largest oil producing nation for no particular reason other than to torture and murder civilians and “why are you invading my country?” fighters.You took me out of context, i was attempting to be sarchastic. I didnt mean that literally.

[The_Rezovor]

Then type [ sarcasm ] word [ /sarcasm ]

I want to be american

[fluffy_bunny]

It kind of looses its flavor though doesnt it...I mean...if you have read anything that ive posted on this thread, or even the reason that ive created it, you would know that that isnt how i feel. Normally at a time like this I would choose to back down and appologize but this time it isnt my fault.

[The_Rezovor]

I'll break down your first post then if that helps


Ever since the war on terror began, and america wanted to do what it wanted to do and the world wanted to do something else,

The war on terror was rushed and we never gave the UN nor the American Intelligence a chance to state their opinion. The world is on another page then america because they know we rushed the war and they know we are there for dumb reasons. (in Iraq)


I have heard sooo much antifrance, antigermany, antiUN, that I want to scream

Anti France - This came when bush got upset at france because they did not join the war on terror, their plan was to have the inspectors go in and then confirm with documentation that saddam actually had weapons. This applys to Anti-Germans also.

Anti-Un - Didnt hear about this one, Never heard someone hate the un because they were told to pull out before they could finish their work.


. Life is too prescious to waste time on hatred. I dont care, who you are, what country you live in, how powerful that country is, or how stupid you think the other guy is, everyone does something for a reason and the united states is not the (only) one with a clear head in the world.

United states is far from "clear headed" I might add, The americans are typically stuck up and ignorant about other countries, while we think we are the "boss" of the world, many countries hate us for that. It's not about what country you live in, it's the leader who makes the decision for the country and everyone get's to base the population off of one president/leader.


those towers fell so that constitutes our right to send everyone to hell who doesnt agree with us

It really does not mean that everyone is going to "hell" because they disagree with the war, it's a simple matter of if the war was rushed or if the war was planned out. I'm even suprised tony blair joined in the fight on terrorism, I had deep respect in him.


I agree that some of the war on terror is completely and continuously justified. . .

The war is NOT justified, if it was a real thought out war, we would not be invading iraq.. But we would have our full force army in Afganistan. Remember when we cornered Bin Laden and the troops got pulled back? How is that a justified war?

[Africa]

Anti UN - Some Americans want to pull out of the UN for the same reasons that the USA never joined the League of Nations ( they believe that the UN is a drain on resources, money and time). And they are pissed off that the other countries of the UN (especially France and Germany) tried to stop them from going to an illegal war.

It's that arrogant attitude that I hate - America may be most powerful right now, but it won't always be, nad as part of the UN, it can get help when it needs it, but only if it gives help and listens to what others have to say.

[fluffy_bunny]

Fine then, put whatever meaning into MY words that you want but here is how i meant them...

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=3 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Ever since the war on terror began, and america wanted to do what it wanted to do and the world wanted to do something else, </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Yes you have this one correct, but this is where it goes all wrong,

I have heard sooo much antifrance, antigermany, antiUN, that I want to scream

I meant here that no one like them because they didnt follow us into the war on terror, yes, I have heard anti UN, the UN was critisized and is even despized in my area for not alowing us to go to war unmolested. They attempted (though not very well) to stand in our way by saying no we wont support your decision to go to Iraq. This is the anti-UN and i find it very hard to believe that you havn't heard at least some of this,


<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=3 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">. Life is too prescious to waste time on hatred. I dont care, who you are, what country you live in, how powerful that country is, or how stupid you think the other guy is, everyone does something for a reason and the united states is not the (only) one with a clear head in the world. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

I meant by this post to explain to everyone (though not very well apperently) that the United States has an agenda for its own purposes and the world has its own. We obviously dont need someone elses permission to do anything that we want to do, the only response to this is simply NOT to throw hatred toward someone because they dont follow our lead. The clear head comment was that America in general has a clear goal in mind even if it is despised by people of other countries.

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=3 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">those towers fell so that constitutes our right to send everyone to hell who doesnt agree with us </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
once again sarcasm sarcasm, huh, some people are so thick they cant just look up a few posts up to see where i explained this already. I stated this because there are people who are so ignorant in America that it sometimes seems they have this sort of viewpoint on the world.

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=3 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">I agree that some of the war on terror is completely and continuously justified. . . </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Um...the invasion of Afghanistan, thats about it, here let me check...yup thats all i agreed with. And if we did have Bin Laden cornered, which we didnt, we would have, in the very least, shot him on the spot, or at least brought him to court.

Honestly, I dont know why I am responding to someone who does not want to be an american, you were born here, and if you dont want to be here, go somewhere else. Its just that simple, you're 20 years old, you CAN do this. Arrogant some americans may be, but arrogance for your country is certainly better than contempt.

[fluffy_bunny]

Fine then, put whatever meaning into MY words that you want but here is how i meant them...

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=3 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Ever since the war on terror began, and america wanted to do what it wanted to do and the world wanted to do something else, </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Yes you have this one correct, but this is where it goes all wrong,

I have heard sooo much antifrance, antigermany, antiUN, that I want to scream

I meant here that no one like them because they didnt follow us into the war on terror, yes, I have heard anti UN, the UN was critisized and is even despized in my area for not alowing us to go to war unmolested. They attempted (though not very well) to stand in our way by saying no we wont support your decision to go to Iraq. This is the anti-UN and i find it very hard to believe that you havn't heard at least some of this,


<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=3 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">. Life is too prescious to waste time on hatred. I dont care, who you are, what country you live in, how powerful that country is, or how stupid you think the other guy is, everyone does something for a reason and the united states is not the (only) one with a clear head in the world. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

I meant by this post to explain to everyone (though not very well apperently) that the United States has an agenda for its own purposes and the world has its own. We obviously dont need someone elses permission to do anything that we want to do, the only response to this is simply NOT to throw hatred toward someone because they dont follow our lead. The clear head comment was that America in general has a clear goal in mind even if it is despised by people of other countries.

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=3 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">those towers fell so that constitutes our right to send everyone to hell who doesnt agree with us </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
once again sarcasm sarcasm, huh, some people are so thick they cant just look up a few posts up to see where i explained this already. I stated this because there are people who are so ignorant in America that it sometimes seems they have this sort of viewpoint on the world.

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=3 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">I agree that some of the war on terror is completely and continuously justified. . . </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Um...the invasion of Afghanistan, thats about it, here let me check...yup thats all i agreed with. And if we did have Bin Laden cornered, which we didnt, we would have, in the very least, shot him on the spot, or at least brought him to court.

Honestly, I dont know why I am responding to an American who does not want to be an american, you were born here, and if you dont want to be here, go somewhere else. Its just that simple, you're 20 years old, you CAN do this. Arrogant some americans may be, but arrogance for your country is certainly better than contempt.

[P.T. Knocc Out]

Im totally against this war now, but i was for it before we hit the 300 mark on death toll.

correct me i'm wrong, but isnt that what happens in war? people die, this is the war on terror.

[The_Rezovor]

huh, some people are so thick they cant just look up a few posts up to see where i explained this already.

If you were paying attention I said I would breakdown your first post, despite what you said in the posts following.

I see that you're just looking for a argument, and you call me arrogant...

[The_Rezovor]

correct me i'm wrong, but isnt that what happens in war? people die, this is the war on terror.

You need to understand there are two different parts

1) Killing soldiers that pose a threat to you

or

2) Killing innocent people that have nothing to do with the war.

[Mosquito]

Problem is that in war that distinction can often become blurred.

[Spectre]

There is a quote, which sadly I cannot find the exact text of, or the author, for that matter, along the following lines:

You must make sure that your reasons for fighting a war at the end are the same as they were when you began.

I think it's a good point when you discuss Iraq. WMDs were the initial point of George's war, WMDs and terrorism. Now it's more about "bringing freedom to Iraq" which you can take at face value if you choose, but either way it has little to do with terrorism and nothing to do with WMDs. Vietnam was the same way. That was supposed to be about protecting the freedom of the South Vietnamese, but it turned into America trying to save face and proving to the world that when they promised to protect someone, they'd actually do it.

[P.T. Knocc Out]

You need to understand there are two different parts

1) Killing soldiers that pose a threat to you

or

2) Killing innocent people that have nothing to do with the war.but he was referring to the deathtoll in Iraq, who are the only Americans in Iraq right now? Troops. i wasnt talking about innocent folk and i'm sure sarge wasnt either, we were talking about the troops there. you should have read what sarge posted.

[fluffy_bunny]

The_Resovor, strangly enough, I have a fealing that we have the same stance on most of the issues, we just cant seem to break through the communication barrier. I agree with most of what you have said and I actually have used it with people that i deal with daily, I just dont understand why I feal attacked by you...

[CarGrrl82]

It really does not mean that everyone is going to "hell" because they disagree with the war, it's a simple matter of if the war was rushed or if the war was planned out. I'm even suprised tony blair joined in the fight on terrorism, I had deep respect in him.



The war is NOT justified, if it was a real thought out war, we would not be invading iraq.. But we would have our full force army in Afganistan. Remember when we cornered Bin Laden and the troops got pulled back? How is that a justified war? Saddam had the necessary raw material and personel to make VX, the most powerful nerve agent know. 10 mg of VX will kill one person, that's 100 people per gram. Saddam could've had hundreds of kilos manufactured and no one would have ever noticed. Everything to make VX can be had from crude oil, of which Saddam had as much as he wanted. Iraq sitting on more oil than Saudi Arabia. He had the personel to make VX. And according to Saddam's former nuclear weapons program director, Saddam had the will that if he decided to he would have it done and use it. And if Saddam needed chlorine, either for chlorine gas or other chemical weapons, or fluorine, he had a huge supply of both of those that couldn't be restricted, seawater.

Saddam's own nuclear program director said that what made Saddam dangerous wasn't the weapons he had, but that he had people who could make the weapons at the drop of a hat. And in the case of chemical weapons all the raw materials. And the director has said he doesn't understand how anyone could say that Saddam not having weapons somehow made him ok, because he was never ok on any level.

Also the just published report says Saddam admitted to try to get inspectors out so he could get back to doing what he used to do. Which jives with what his own nuclear director has said independantly.

As for Bin Laden, there's no assurance we ever had him cornered. And there's still troops looking for him, just that the operations of special forces is classified, so not something that makes the news. Plus how better to get him to slip up than have him think we're not looking for him? Though I doubt he's dumb enough to think we really aren't looking for him.

And if the US wanted oil we could clear up the situation in the Sudan a lot more easily than Iraq. And there's at least as much oil under the Sudan as there is under Saudi Arabia, and it's totally untapped. Granted the oil from Iraq is a lot cheaper to produce, five dollars a barrel verss about fifteen per barrel for Saudi oil, but oil is oil. More to the point if it is about oil then flooding the market with Iraqi oil, which could be sold for 20 dollars a barrel and still have a big profit margin, would destroy the power of OPEC. Which would be a very very good thing. OPEC being like DeBeers what all cartels are, a den of thieves of the worst kind.
The war in Iraq could've been avoided, as could've all the deaths Saddam caused because of sanctions. All Saddam had to do was step aside and leave. As it is, just as those deaths and the thousands of others he allowed, just as the total collapse of the infrastructure of Iraq is his fault, so is the war.

The world turned a blind eye to Cambodia, Ethiopia, Somalia, Sierra Leone, Rwanda, the Sudan. Millions dead because no one could be bothered to drop in a battalion to stop or prevent bloodbaths. At some point either someone actually does something regardless of how popular it is, or any talk of wanting better for the opressed of the world becomes nohing more than hypocracy.

Oh as for the UN, they did nothing from the mid 70's onwards to prevent the explosion of malaria in Africa. Malaria cases were way down, then industrialized nations banned DDT, the only insecticide poor nations could afford and afford the means to use. Without DDT malaria exploded, leaving millions dead and who knows how many orphans. The UN just sat and watched doing nothing but saying how awful it is. Same goes for any place with bad water, UN will tell you how awful it is but not lift a finger to help.

[Mosquito]

The world turned a blind eye to Cambodia, Ethiopia, Somalia, Sierra Leone, Rwanda, the Sudan. Millions dead because no one could be bothered to drop in a battalion to stop or prevent bloodbaths. At some point either someone actually does something regardless of how popular it is, or any talk of wanting better for the opressed of the world becomes nohing more than hypocracy.
Your reference to Sierra Leone is misplaced. When the situation turned critical the UK dispatched a task force and evacuated foreign nationals and aided the Sierra Leone army and government in restoring stability. Britain did not turn a blind eye.

[CarGrrl82]

Your reference to Sierra Leone is misplaced. When the situation turned critical the UK dispatched a task force and evacuated foreign nationals and aided the Sierra Leone army and government in restoring stability. Britain did not turn a blind eye.
Sadly it was too little too late. Troops were sent into Rwanda as well, too few, too late.

[Mosquito]

The world cannot be expected to prevent every humanitarian disaster, nor does it have a responsibility to. Nonetheless, British action in Sierra Leone saved countless lives and prevented the fall of the government to piratical rebels, and is continuing to help stabilise a ravaged country.

[The_Rezovor]

The_Resovor, strangly enough, I have a fealing that we have the same stance on most of the issues, we just cant seem to break through the communication barrier. I agree with most of what you have said and I actually have used it with people that i deal with daily, I just dont understand why I feal attacked by you...

Sorry if I made myself unclear, these quotes are why I felt you attacked me:


once again sarcasm sarcasm, huh, some people are so thick they cant just look up a few posts up to see where i explained this already.

As I said above though, I was responding only to your first post. If you want me to respond to your other posts i've read through, I will. Simply stated that the first post was my main objective to post a reply to.

No biggie, misunderstanding on both of our parts.

[fluffy_bunny]

lol...oh well i appologize also...back to the issues...

This is the reason why, in my mind, we should no be involved in the world. Let the world take care of itself and let everyone mind their own business. isolationism, in my opinion, makes more sense than allowing yourelf to come under attack for every little thing. America being involved with everyone else in the world is the reason terrorists targeted us in the first place, now we are in a war that we can never ever get out of and its just going to end up like vietnam. America with its tail between its legs running home. God, i dont know if im just particularly depressed today or if this is simply the unused voice in my head that ive never heard before...

[Faster]

America being involved with everyone else in the world is the reason terrorists targeted us in the first place
You obviously are wrong.

If you listened to the President he tells us that terrorists hate us because of our freedom and democracy.

As an American you have the duty to worship the flag and the people who stand behind it unquestionably.

[fluffy_bunny]

As an american, I have the freedom to worship what i want when i want, the flag or my president being neither. It is my duty to support the actions of my country and, outside of this website, I do. Why would anyone think that someone hates us because of our freedom? We are trying to give this to the people in Afghanistan and Iraq but they are resisting our every move. Just because the president said it, doesnt make it true.

[The_Rezovor]

If you listened to the President he tells us that terrorists hate us because of our freedom and democracy.

It's amazing how the president speaks for every terrorist! Yeah i'm really sure he knows everything inside their minds because bush is a terrorist himself.

[new_boy]

Okay, hello everyone, I am an american, but you see, I have been traversing the web for a while, exploring everything possible and i have come to one assertation that I have arrived at many times before, but this time i have a voice to express it. Ever since the war on terror began, and america wanted to do what it wanted to do and the world wanted to do something else, I have heard sooo much antifrance, antigermany, antiUN, that I want to scream. Im SICK of it. Life is too prescious to waste time on hatred. I dont care, who you are, what country you live in, how powerful that country is, or how stupid you think the other guy is, everyone does something for a reason and the united states is not the (only) one with a clear head in the world. France did something they though was right, so did germany, so did every country, THEY OWE US NOTHING! no matter how many wars you bring up, or how much aid, or how many times someone brings up the fact that "erda erda er, those towers fell so that constitutes our right to send everyone to hell who doesnt agree with us". I agree that some of the war on terror is completely and continuously justified. . . but if they dont want to help us, they dont have to. It was our choice to give them aid or help them in a war or disaster. With websights like invadecanada.us or invadefrance.us its a wonder they havn't done more than feal disgruntled toward us.
Big headed arrogant pompus rat. it wasn't your choice it was your governments lol, you have no control but from what you wrote you seem rather patritically arrogant.

[SabreWolf]

for one thing, i agreed with the War in Afghanistan and thats about it. I openly spoke against the war in Iraq until we actually got there. I feel that if you dont support the men and women that are fighting is pretty unpatriotic regardless of what country you are from. I also think that maybe we should have waited to go into Iraq after the UN approved of it. That should be the body that oversees who goes where and why. And even if we went there without the UN's approval (which i could only hope we dont do), at least finish the first war we went into first. Im not an anti-american american, I will support every decision that our county makes, but I can only agree with the decisions that make logical sense. Invading a country simply on the "hunch" that they might be harboring weapons of mass destruction or terrorists isnt very smart or logical. And throwing hatred at other people and countries simply because they dont support your idea is also a very unintelligent thing to do. Many of our fellow americans have broken this whole thing down into a sort of "well, jimmy hit me and i'm kinda done with my revenge, but i think that carl gave him the baseball bat so ill beat him up too, and if you guys dont help me beat carl up, screw you". Anyway thats what ive been seeing around my school. ill be back...
I think it is time that you left this country. Your wreak of liberalism; I think France or England should be your new home.

[fluffy_bunny]

What, because i have a different opinion than yours, I should leave the country!? Because my beliefs are based on equality, I should leave the country!? Because I HAVE and opinion of my own, I should leave the county?! You have no idea what life is like outside of South Carolina do you? Smashing peoples ideas simply because they are different than yours is NOT the way the world works. And, this is my personal belief, if all the people like me left the country, and all teh people like you were still here, this country would be nuked by at least five other countries once the planes left the runway. And the world would rejoice with laughter and singing.

[The_Rezovor]

I think it is time that you left this country. Your wreak of liberalism; I think France or England should be your new home.

I think you should stop telling people what to do, people have a choice to live in america. That means even if you dissaprove of the system of government, the war or whatever.. You have a right to live here! So don't pull that crap on him.

[Kard]

I think it says she's a he, and his name is Ben but whatever...:P

[The_Rezovor]

Woops, i'll edit that..

[SabreWolf]

What, because i have a different opinion than yours, I should leave the country!? Because my beliefs are based on equality, I should leave the country!? Because I HAVE and opinion of my own, I should leave the county?! You have no idea what life is like outside of South Carolina do you? Smashing peoples ideas simply because they are different than yours is NOT the way the world works. And, this is my personal belief, if all the people like me left the country, and all teh people like you were still here, this country would be nuked by at least five other countries once the planes left the runway. And the world would rejoice with laughter and singing.
Well why don't you just do that and we will see what happens.

[SabreWolf]

I think you should stop telling people what to do, people have a choice to live in america. That means even if you dissaprove of the system of government, the war or whatever.. You have a right to live here! So don't pull that crap on him.
He may have a right to live here, but he still needs some discipline. Matter of fact you could use some as well Rezovor.

[fluffy_bunny]

What what what?! dicipline? Are we in Nazi Germany, or some facist state? Do you need to haul me out behind the woodshed and teach me a lesson with old hicory? My god, you are cracked. Im done responding to your insults. Idiot...

[SabreWolf]

What what what?! dicipline? Are we in Nazi Germany, or some facist state? Do you need to haul me out and teach me a lesson? My god, you are cracked. Im done responding to your insults. Idiot...
Yes discipline; you act like you have never heard that term before. More than likely you never have. As for a facist state you liberals are trying to take us there as fast as you can.

[The_Rezovor]

He may have a right to live here, but he still needs some discipline. Matter of fact you could use some as well Rezovor.

I need discipline? haha, you've got to be kidding me. You're the one throwing out these weak statements and trying to act like you are the big guy on this forum.

I've got two words for you: Fuck off

:D

[SabreWolf]

I need discipline? haha, you've got to be kidding me. You're the one throwing out these weak statements and trying to act like you are the big guy on this forum.

I've got two words for you: Fuck off

:D
No I am not kidding. You are a waste of my time; something I would shake like a rat and discard. As for the big guy on the forum that is somewhat opinionated. See you around wimp.

[The_Rezovor]

No I am not kidding. You are a waste of my time; something I would shake like a rat and discard. As for the big guy on the forum that is somewhat opinionated. See you around wimp.

Arguing with you is like talking to a tree, you just do not get it. I am a waste of your time supposedly, but yet you do not consider yourself a waste of time by making this thread off-topic.

[fluffy_bunny]

Huh...Im glad then that you have wasted almost a whole week arguing with me then...because obviously you have nothing better to do...lol...excuse me while i go to work.