Stupid WAR

[Carlos]

Well, as you all know I was against the WAR, and I continue thinking it had no base.
I participated in big debates here, were there were two sides: pro-war and anti-war.

Now, we can make balance...

- I was told this war had as principal objective finding the WMD Saddam had in Iraq, so the world would be a safer place to live in // No WMD found after months...

- I was told this war would also free Iraqi people // I don't think that are free, or they like this kind of freedom: insecurity, anarchy, US control, etc etc etc...

The only thing know is that the millionaire bussines has begun: building licenses, oil export, etc...

Perhaps I sound repetitive, but I feel like we have all forgot this unfair, and stupid war that killed so many people, destroyed so many families, for nothing....

[Starseed]

Yes, you do sound repetitive....the war is over, move on and shut up.

[Carlos]

Originally posted by CrazyOnYou
Yes, you do sound repetitive....the war is over, move on and shut up.

The war is over, but the consequences are still in the ground, there are invasors troops in their country, and there's no WMD, nor freedom for iraqi people.

I can move on, but iraqis, I DON'T THINK SO.

I won't shut up, (Have you read the forum title?)...DEBATE!

[paraducks]

Originally posted by CrazyOnYou
Yes, you do sound repetitive....the war is over, move on and shut up.

... tell that to the millions of iraqis with no power and no water you insensitive douche.

however, there ARE a LOT of threads in here talking about this.

[mediocre]

I say we bring Saddam back so he can murder his people again, then countries like germany and russia and others who didnt support the war can still sell there arms to Iraq, that is most likely the reason the anti-war countries didnt want to take out Saddam, they wouldnt have anyone to sell there arms too!

[ResetC2]

It doesn't matter if you don't think the overall outcome was good, Carlos, because it undeniably was.

[mediocre]

Carlos would argue about anything America did whether it was good or bad :roll:

[7 of 11]

Originally posted by Carlos
The war is over, but the consequences are still in the ground, there are invasors troops in their country, and there's no WMD, nor freedom for iraqi people.

I can move on, but iraqis, I DON'T THINK SO.

I won't shut up, (Have you read the forum title?)...DEBATE!


haha good for you carlos...DEBATE!

and whoever told you to shut up need shut up himself.

Carlos give it time. It took 7 years to set up a government in Japan. why should Iraq be any diffrent? It takes time and we are going to need more patciants than anything else.

[Tiki]

For starters, there aren't "millions" Iraqis without food and water.

And secondly, Carlos, how can they possibly be NOT free from government control and in Anarchy? That just sounds a little contradictory to me.....

The Iraqi people are far better off, and will be even better off in the future without Saddam.

[Starseed]

Originally posted by 7 of 11
haha good for you carlos...DEBATE!

and whoever told you to shut up need shut up himself.

Carlos give it time. It took 7 years to set up a government in Japan. why should Iraq be any diffrent? It takes time and we are going to need more patciants than anything else.
No, no I don't. I was simply making the point that too many people are still bitching about the war that has been over for more than a month. You saying that it takes time just proves my point. So I really don't know why you're taking shots at me for a point I made that you support. And I also told him to shut up because the debate forum is as clogged up with "debates" about Iraq as there are "Am I....?" questions in P101.

[Ace Rockolla]

Originally posted by Carlos
- I was told this war had as principal objective finding the WMD Saddam had in Iraq, so the world would be a safer place to live in // No WMD found after months...

Which is not to say they won't ever be found or that they weren't there in the first place. I doubt anyone would just leave them lying around to be discovered anyway. It is possible they were never there, but I sincerely doubt that.


- I was told this war would also free Iraqi people // I don't think that are free, or they like this kind of freedom: insecurity, anarchy, US control, etc etc etc...

And freedom doesn't happen overnight. To bring down one government and establish a new one is neither fast, nor easy, nor necessarily peaceful. I don't care WHO you are, you're not liberating any nation overnight. Hell, what short attention spans do we have? Iraq was invaded less than four months ago.


The only thing know is that the millionaire bussines has begun: building licenses, oil export, etc...

The cost to built, extract, and process oil will cost BILLIONS to whoever decides to do it. This isn't a walk-in and get rich thing. That oil isn't making anyone money right away. Anyway, I'm rather tired of this "Bush-started-a-war-for-his-oil-buddies-bit" because Saudi Arabia has more oil, more terrorist connections, and would be an easier target for American forces. Bush may be dumb (something I seriously doubt actually) but he's not THAT dumb.


Perhaps I sound repetitive, but I feel like we have all forgot this unfair, and stupid war that killed so many people, destroyed so many families, for nothing....

And you expect too much too fast while at the same time giving no chance for anything but you want to believe be reinforced. I knew no one of your views would change at all.

[ourmodernred]

Originally posted by CrazyOnYou
Yes, you do sound repetitive....the war is over, move on and shut up.

Sure, fuck all those jews who died in WWII death camps. Fuck all those MILLIONS of people Stalin murdered. Fuck 'em all. The wars are over. Go tell your nearest veteran to get the fuck over and shut up, because their was is over!

Idiot.

[Ace Rockolla]

Originally posted by Darkness
Sure, fuck all those jews who died in WWII death camps. Fuck all those MILLIONS of people Stalin murdered. Fuck 'em all. The wars are over. Go tell your nearest veteran to get the fuck over and shut up, because their was is over!

Idiot.

There is a difference between remembering the past and dwelling in it.

[PeaceFroggy]

Originally posted by 7 of 11
haha good for you carlos...DEBATE!

and whoever told you to shut up need shut up himself.

Carlos give it time. It took 7 years to set up a government in Japan. why should Iraq be any diffrent? It takes time and we are going to need more patciants than anything else.
Carl, after just 2 months since the war there has been 60 dead American soldiers and the public support is dropping significantly (69% to 56%), do you really think even the most staunch hawks will tolerate this for 7 years?

[NeverMore]

Originally posted by Chechnya
then countries like germany and russia and others who didnt support the war can still sell there arms to Iraq, that is most likely the reason the anti-war countries didnt want to take out Saddam, they wouldnt have anyone to sell there arms too!

Suprising how willing people are too pass of anit-war sentiment on things the USA it just just as guilty of, if not more so, than any other country

[Zaphod Beeblebrox the 0th]

Originally posted by clodhopper5569
There is a difference between remembering the past and dwelling in it.
The difference being, presumably, that things you like discussing go into the former category and things you don't into the latter category, to save you having to think up proper things to say?

Yes, you do sound repetitive....the war is over, move on and shut up.
Are you employed by GW Bush? I mean seriously, he would like us all to forget about Iraq as soon as possible, wouldn't he? Really, the less people still discussing it, the less money he has to put into rebuilding the place. That's right, isn't it? It certainly seems to be true for Afghanistan. (Cue ... "bush r0x0rZ j00 couldn't do anybetter asshole")

I say we bring Saddam back so he can murder his people again, then countries like germany and russia and others who didnt support the war can still sell there arms to Iraq, that is most likely the reason the anti-war countries didnt want to take out Saddam, they wouldnt have anyone to sell there arms too!
Good idea, dude. Also, then America would be able to keep on giving Saddam the weapons and then destroying the country, getting lots of American companies to rebuild it, exploit the oil reserves a bit, then give him some more weapons, condemn him for having them again, bomb the shit out of Iraq... ... ad infinitum.

Alternatively, we could have just persued non-military, non-lethal methods of dealing with the problems he presented in the first place, avoiding the need for bloodshed altogether!

Which is not to say they won't ever be found or that they weren't there in the first place. I doubt anyone would just leave them lying around to be discovered anyway. It is possible they were never there, but I sincerely doubt that.
You seriously doubt it, based on what? I fail to see how anyone can even speculate with any certitude whatsoever whether the weapons really existed or not, but there do seem to be a number of pointers indicating that maybe the Americo-British forces aren't quite as sure of their existence as they would like:
* The furore on both sides of the Atlantic over whether the leaders lied, exaggarated or otherwise manipulated intelligence, in many cases from their own parties, etc.
* The willingness of the coalition forces to seize upon very minor "discoveries" such as small, empty chemical warheads or mobile laboratories with possible facilities for making chemical weapons.
* The number of excuses and renegements on guarantess and confident promises that the weapons "will be found" such as "they've gone to Syria!".

The are also particular specifics of the "intelligence" presented by them under dispute.

And freedom doesn't happen overnight. To bring down one government and establish a new one is neither fast, nor easy, nor necessarily peaceful. I don't care WHO you are, you're not liberating any nation overnight. Hell, what short attention spans do we have? Iraq was invaded less than four months ago.
No doubt, Brian, no doubt. But it seems to me that sizeable portions of the population actively want the Americans out of there. This doesn't seem to me to be a good sign, however much people choose to pontificate about things taking a lot of time to occur. This seems to suggest that people are reluctant to accept this excuse, and that things have actively been done wrong; not just that there are certain things needing to be ironed out.

The cost to built, extract, and process oil will cost BILLIONS to whoever decides to do it. This isn't a walk-in and get rich thing. That oil isn't making anyone money right away. Anyway, I'm rather tired of this "Bush-started-a-war-for-his-oil-buddies-bit" because Saudi Arabia has more oil, more terrorist connections, and would be an easier target for American forces. Bush may be dumb (something I seriously doubt actually) but he's not THAT dumb.
Very well. But there's no denying that an easily-controllable supply of oil down there is "convenient" at least to the American economy, which is almost exclusively dependent on oil, through Bush's (and others') own inaction, is there?

And you expect too much too fast while at the same time giving no chance for anything but you want to believe be reinforced. I knew no one of your views would change at all.
Well, is there good reason for anything to have changed? You admit yourself that little tangibly good has come from any of this so far - "it takes times" and so on.


It doesn't matter if you don't think the overall outcome was good, Carlos, because it undeniably was.
The Iraqi people are far better off, and will be even better off in the future without Saddam.
Oh, oh! You two must really get yourselves over to Iraq and tell the people who think the Americans should be gone, that they have done more harm than good and who are mourning injury and death of themselves and loved ones to stop feeling sorry for themselves! I mean, how wrong can they be, they only live there and all, don't they! They are clearly ungrateful morons who know nothing about their own situation, and need some lads like yourselves to set the record straight.

What are you waiting for?

[Starseed]

For your comment about mine....that is simply my perspective. George Bush didn't feed me information, and CNN didn't brainwash me. That is my stance on the war in Iraq. You're being hypocritical in trying to convince me that the war was unjustified, when you say that Bush is convincing people into believing the war was justified. You're doing the same thing that you're accusing Bush of doing.

[Zaphod Beeblebrox the 0th]

I wasn't be entirely serious. I was just using your somewhat throwaway stinger at Carlos as a way of illustrating what might very well happen, as happened with Afghanistan.

[7 of 11]

Originally posted by Zaphod Beeblebrox the 0th
I wasn't be entirely serious. I was just using your somewhat throwaway stinger at Carlos as a way of illustrating what might very well happen, as happened with Afghanistan.


Afghanisatn was for vengence. You actullay think we give a shit about a few million goat herders?

They harboured a fuck head that killed citizens and caused destruction on a superpower's soil, and we fucked them up.


DONT FUCK WITH AMERICA!

[Starseed]

Originally posted by Darkness
Sure, fuck all those jews who died in WWII death camps. Fuck all those MILLIONS of people Stalin murdered. Fuck 'em all. The wars are over. Go tell your nearest veteran to get the fuck over and shut up, because their was is over!

Idiot.
Do you even know what I was telling him to shut up for? This war wasn't WWIII. I wasn't telling him to forget about the people killed. He is dwelling on the "bad" things this war caused. I wasn't telling him to forget, I was telling him to quit complaining and dwelling on the past. So maybe you should read before you post, just a hint for the future.

[Zaphod Beeblebrox the 0th]

Originally posted by 7 of 11
Afghanisatn was for vengence. You actullay think we give a shit about a few million goat herders?

They harboured a fuck head that killed citizens and caused destruction on a superpower's soil, and we fucked them up.


DONT FUCK WITH AMERICA!
Yeah, I mean why would such a caring superpower care about something as trivial as the lives of the people of the country it's bombed? Damn, aren't I the stupid one, CARL.