Problems with America (An American's View)

[Neko]

I was born and raised in Lansing, Michigan, on the American mainland. I'll try not to bash America in this post, but it's really hard, I need to get this off my chest and tell people who will listen open minded.

First Complaint: Education

I'm currently in High School, I am surrounded by idiots. Honestly I am. The American educational system is a joke, we give out more athletic scholarships then we do intellectual scholarships. My "Generation" cares more about music and T.V. shows then they do about real life. We know nothing about the government, we don't even try to know which candidates we vote for, most people just vote for the names that sound best when voting locally, when it's presidential we do a quick look over, then vote.

Second Complaint: Out of touch with the world

We are honestly clueless about the rest of the world, Most of us couldn't even find Iraq on a damn map, our idea of war is a T.V. Special Report that takes up the friends time slot so we get all pissed about it. 9/11 was terrible, but that's nothing compared to countries like Germany and Russia have gone through.

Third Complaint: Government

I've always been pro-government, untill now. The Patriot Act I & II are completely unconstitutional and violates our basic rights. Congress didn't even read the damn thing, and John Ashcroft is hitler reincarnated. Not to mention the candidates with the most money get elected, and the party system is anti-democratic because they tell you who to vote for and what your opinions should be.

Fourth Complaint: Capitalism

Big business has our government wrapped around it's little finger, as big business buys out smaller business we lose variety. They can hock up the prices and we can't do anything about it. Even worse examples are Crystal Clear, a conglomerate that owns most of the radio stations in the united states, and has censored all anti-war songs from the air. We are raised to believe that money is the key to happiness.

Fith Complaint: Arrogant

What our ancestors did in WWII dosen't mean jack now, you weren't there, you didn't fight and die. Pointing at the French loses is stupid. The fact is if Germany boardered America we would have got our asses kicked. The fact is your under-educated, brain washed by the media, with no grasp on real life, you don't have any right to judge anyone.

Sith Complaint: Hypocrites

What is with this "love it or leave it" crap? You sound like your a German citizen from WWII. Anyone who dosen't support the government is unpatriotic? That's called facism, I suggest you look it up after you finish listening to the latest crap they put on the new CD you just bought.

Go look outside, look at the sky, there is a whole world out there, a whole set of facts and information about history you were never tought in school, learn to understand different cultures, learn patience. If everyone does that, I will be proud to be an American.

[Alakan]

Oh yes, Capitalism has hindered our growth and prosperity so much. I sure wish we were Communists like China or Russia, or better yet, North Korea. I'd love to work for the state for the rest of my life, because, as we all well know, the state produces the greatest products, hence our educational system. Im sooooo jealous of other countries.:roll:

[Neko]

Alakan, I suggest you go visit China, you know, the fastest growing economy in the world, the largest military in the world, one of the largest populations. I also suggest you look up how many changes the Chinese government has gone through. I see about as much corruption in the chinese government as I do the american government. You only get your side of the argument from western and gasp, CENSORED media outlets. (Not saying the chinese media isn't censored).

Bash communism all you want, but start attacking Neo-Socialist Democracies and you'll regret it.

[Alakan]

Hey, guess what? Ive been to China, HK. I have friends who have relatives in China, and who have been to the rural areas, they tell me its shit. Ill believe them.

Ill attack the Neo-Socialist Domocracies all I want and I wont regret it, because, guess what? Ive been to one of the those Socialist Democracies where my mom grew up, and the people I met there hate it, do you have any clue why? Taxes!! Who would have thought robbing people of hard earned money would have pissed them off? (in case you're wondering which nation I'm talking about, its Germany). Guess what the German unemployment rate is. Its 11.1% as of March, or so the German Federal Office of Statics says. After all they could jacking that up by a few percentage points:roll:. Lets compare that to the US unemployemnt rate of 5.8%. Where would one have a better chance to find a job? Hmm, thats a hard one to figure out. Or we could competitiveness, if you like. The World Economic Forums annual rankins show that the US comes in at #1 in both the growth competiveness and microeconomics competitiveness categories. "Where the hell is China on this chart?" Well I'll tell you: 33 and 38, respectively.

Yes, I totally see your point. Capitalism has failed. Death to all bourgeoisie capitalist pigs!

[420]

c'mon! shouldn't this be stuffed into the debate forum?

You could say the exact same things if you were British or Japanese or even German. Every nation has its faults, but at the end of the day, you've got to ask urself "Is there any other country you'd rather be living in?"

[Neko]

That's the point! I don't want to move to another country, I want to make things better, raise the education system, promote understanding and tolerance. Why should all the problems of America be unsolvable?

[joefis]

Something me government teacher always told me....

"Write your Congressmen"

[Alakan]

so really your point is that the whole world sucks. This country sucks, but nowhere else doesnt suck enough to entice you to live there.

[7 of 11]

The only reason china has propered so much is because they had captialist rich nations as customers. Do you think it was Cuba and vietnam that has made China rich?

[Alakan]

No Carl, it was their prosperous North Korean buddies who are prospering so much under Communist rule that made the Chinese rich. In fact, the North Koreans gave so much money and resources to their Chinese comrades that they forced themselves into a famine and energry crisis.:roll:

[7 of 11]

and my final answer is : eat shit

[Alakan]

settle down, i was simply expanding upon the point you already made.

[Alakan]

albeit in a rather sarcastic way

[Bricoleur]

My responses to those complaints:

First complaint: Your title for the first one is confusing. You educational system does suck, that is why I homeschool. You have public libraries where the mentally ill hang out, and then private libraries where focused people are. You have public restrooms, and your own private restroom. Anything public will never measure up to anything private. Public is free and you can expect a shoddy operation. High School Students are not going to be intellectuals, they have a right to be as they wish, those that are more intellectual are free to be that way. Intellectuals are better at surviving, but not always the better person. You will find teenagers do not pay attention to politics because most practically politics doesn't affect their lives. When you are 75 and on social security, you will pay attention to politics to vote for whoever will keep social security around. Social security has an affect on this 75 yr old's life, not a 17 yr old.

Second complaint: Again, going back up, the world does not matter to our daily lives. We become generalists in international politics because we pay attention to where we specialize. like a nuerologist doesn't give a shit where Syria is, just if he/she prescribed the proper medication and dose to a patient. We do not have to pay attention to every small country on earth, it isn't practical. But that doesn't mean citizens avoid it because they were taught to, there are citizens who care about international politics and because of our free press we can follow international politics if we wish.

Third complaint: Too tired to type about this.

Fourth complaint: Money can be a key to happiness. But it isn't nessesarily money as much as it is the american dream. Radio stations can be private corporations, and the corporation has the right to ban anti-war songs, I would like to know why you think they did that. I listen to college radio mostly, they play the anti-war songs when the DJ's want to play them. It isn't a big deal really, people against the war follow the american dream and pursue it, no corporation has the power to control individuals through influencing their plastic radio BS. One thing I always hear from people making expounding on their dislikes of the US always like to say "we are raised to..." it is interesting. Anyways, we are raised to beleive that money is the most influencial object in our lives, not that it is happiness. Remember, american life is based on individualism and integrity, capitalist people tend to feel creepy with so much control over people and would not want to control thoughts. americans are not deeply controlled by corporate propaganda.

Fifth: You sound like a Jello Biafra clone. Do you listen to him too? I liked him a lot, before I noticed how much he has butchered his spoken word albums. His CDs have all the indications of propaganda and it is used to keep extreme liberal punks into him and buy his CDs, thus he makes money. He is about money. One of his favorite arguements is that the media controls us and bombards us with information. I have studied and practiced journalism for some years now. These comments offend me. the media is about individualism, integrity and truth. They often seperate the business people from the journalists for a reason, the business people want money and want to control what is published and the journalists fight to tell the truth. Literally fight; A journalist would not work for a business controlled press, and only the journalists can make the press work, and the journalists refuse the business controls. So the business has no choice but to let the journalist work for the truth. The media is not perfect, but there is no goddamn stupid ass motherfucking cocksucking american in his or her right mind that totally accepts one news outlet. The media's objective is not control over thoughts, it is about telling the truth and letting people draw their own conclusions. We are strong individuals with integrity, if the germans took us, which would have been difficult becuase citizens would use their right to bear arms than be taken by a foriegn country. If we were taken, they would not have broken us, we would rebound quickly.

Sixth: If you are going to whine and protest and hate the government, then go to another country where you can enjoy no war and the government. True americans accept the decision. Once the decision is made, there is no way in hell that a protest and some whining will end the war. There is either no objective, or an illogical objective for the anti-war people.

After some sleep I may revise some, but I couldn't help a response right away.

[Greenbeans]

Neko, i'm Australian so don't have any personal experience with America, but from my limited viewpoint i agree with you.

[Keith]

Originally posted by Alakan
[B]Hey, guess what? Ive been to China, HK. I have friends who have relatives in China, and who have been to the rural areas, they tell me its shit. Ill believe them.

[quote]Ill attack the Neo-Socialist Domocracies all I want and I wont regret it, because, guess what? Ive been to one of the those Socialist Democracies where my mom grew up, and the people I met there hate it, do you have any clue why? Taxes!! Who would have thought robbing people of hard earned money would have pissed them off? (in case you're wondering which nation I'm talking about, its Germany). Guess what the German unemployment rate is. Its 11.1% as of March, or so the German Federal Office of Statics says. After all they could jacking that up by a few percentage points:roll:. Lets compare that to the US unemployemnt rate of 5.8%. Where would one have a better chance to find a job? Hmm, thats a hard one to figure out. Or we could competitiveness, if you like. The World Economic Forums annual rankins show that the US comes in at #1 in both the growth competiveness and microeconomics competitiveness categories. "Where the hell is China on this chart?" Well I'll tell you: 33 and 38, respectively.
Actually the reason the unemployment rate is so high in Germany is, because the businesses don't want to hire. This is because Germany has been hit extremely hard from the recession(a lot more then the US). Many of the other "neo-Socialist democracies" have lower unemployment then the US. It's not a flaw in the system, it's just the way things are now. China has dual-sided economic policy. But it's far more Capitalist then Communist.

And Neko, I strongly agree with much of what you say. It's guys like you and I that need to run this country :-D

[Alakan]

Originally posted by Keith
Actually the reason the unemployment rate is so high in Germany is, because the businesses don't want to hire. This is because Germany has been hit extremely hard from the recession(a lot more then the US).

Thanking for proving my point.

according to the French government, France's unemployment rate is 9.0% as of Jan.
Canada's is 7.4% in Jan
Italy's was 8.9% in Oct, but I'll try to find a Jan resource
The Euro area is 8.6% according to the OECD
Japan, a very capitalist nation, even more so than the US, is at 5.5%

The US is at 5.7%, just for comparison.

[Alakan]

Where did you get the idea that China is more capitalist than communist? They may have allowed coporate incentive in major areas llike Shanghai, Beijing, and Hong Kong, but thats hardly a reflection of the bulk of the Chinese economy. Try going to areas in China where the press doesnt broadcast from like I have and you will see the people who are still commanded to go work in the factory for their entire lives. They are more communist/socialist than anything.

[Bla13]

I agree with almost all of your post, except for the Capitalism Compaint and the Anit Government Crap.

If you hate capitalismn so much then throw away your computer take off your clothers leave your house and go to a cave completly naked with absoulutly no personal objects at all.

The point of a country is to unite people with common interests under a government. If you do not support our type of govt. Or the way it is run, then simply move.

[Neko]

Listen, I'm not Anti-American, I'm just listing what really bothers me, so I can hear your feed back. Do you agree or disagree? I'm listing problems I think need to be changed. I'm not going around and yelling "America sucks!"

I want to go into politics, but when I go in I want to know every aspect of politics, local and world. Even in a post like this I learn a little bit more, so for me it's worth it.

Thanks for all the support.

Especially those who disagree with me, because I can learn alot from their view.

[Keith]

Originally posted by Alakan
Where did you get the idea that China is more capitalist than communist? They may have allowed coporate incentive in major areas llike Shanghai, Beijing, and Hong Kong, but thats hardly a reflection of the bulk of the Chinese economy. Try going to areas in China where the press doesnt broadcast from like I have and you will see the people who are still commanded to go work in the factory for their entire lives. They are more communist/socialist than anything.
Commanded to go to a factory everyday is Communist? Marx was a pusher for economic equality and fairness. China is the anti-thesis of Marxism.
[quote]
Norway 3.9%
Denmark 4.2
UK 3.1
The Netherlands 2.9

Really it's not the end all break all of economics. America's unemployment rate varies from state to state.

[Alakan]

First of all, yes, when the government tells you where to work that Stalinistic Communism. Karl Marx would have probably been apalled at the aplication of Communism in Russia and China. Nevertheless, its still communism.

Btw, where did you get those unemployment stats from? My source puts Britains unemployment at in the upper 4s or lower 5s.

[420]

Originally posted by Keith
Actually the reason the unemployment rate is so high in Germany is, because the businesses don't want to hire. This is because Germany has been hit extremely hard from the recession(a lot more then the US). Many of the other "neo-Socialist democracies" have lower unemployment then the US. It's not a flaw in the system, it's just the way things are now. China has dual-sided economic policy. But it's far more Capitalist then Communist.



What school of economics have you been reading? Voodoo econ? j/k

Seriously, there's widespread agreement among economists that Germany/France/Italy's high unemployment is due to structural rigidities in the labor market which prevent businesses from adapting to changes in demand. There are multitude of laws covering who can be hired and at what wage (often negotitated by nationwide unions) and how many hours they're allowed to work.

And while i agree that China has adopted a very forward-thinking plan to transition to competitive markets, they've still got a huge number of state-owned "dinosaur" manufacturers (maybe 40%+ of GDP?) which are churning out products that people don't need, just because they're protected by self-serving Party officials from their province.

[Ace Rockolla]

While I don't agree with you on everything you say, I will say you are MORE American because you seek to change things for the better of yourself and others as well. REAL Americans question their government.


Originally posted by Neko
First Complaint: Education

I'm currently in High School, I am surrounded by idiots. Honestly I am. The American educational system is a joke, we give out more athletic scholarships then we do intellectual scholarships. My "Generation" cares more about music and T.V. shows then they do about real life. We know nothing about the government, we don't even try to know which candidates we vote for, most people just vote for the names that sound best when voting locally, when it's presidential we do a quick look over, then vote.

I think you have two complaints there, or at least a complaint more geared towards political apathy than a lack of education. I personally believe it's a flawed idea to put the power of the vote in an electorate that isn't even stupid necessarily, but has neither the time or the will power to know EVERYTHING that must be known to adequately pick a representative that will represent your interests. Hell, even they aren't specifically educated on every issue, it's just too much. You're putting the burden of so many affairs in the hands of such a small group not specialized to do those tasks (even though there are agencies in the government that specialize...but that's another topic).

And really, if you look closely, there isn't much difference between a lot of the candidates on the voting ballot. And the worst part is you're saying you're "throwing your vote" away if you gamble on anyone who is different. And tossing one more meaningless vote you don't even want on the pile ISN'T throwing a vote away? Such lunacy.


Second Complaint: Out of touch with the world

We are honestly clueless about the rest of the world, Most of us couldn't even find Iraq on a damn map, our idea of war is a T.V. Special Report that takes up the friends time slot so we get all pissed about it. 9/11 was terrible, but that's nothing compared to countries like Germany and Russia have gone through.

Consider this, people do have a lot of responsibilities to deal with. Even I, keeping up on the news, can honestly tell you about everything that is going on the in the world. I doubt people in Russia and Germany know the details of everything that happens politically in America (although the Germans do have a taste for politics, both domestic and international). And for that matter, it's a depressing world out there. Why would most people willingly subject themselves to the reality that life sucks in a lot of places? It's not all peaches and creme for people here either sometimes. I think there is only so much you can ask of people to know. However, some knowledge--which is what I believe you propose--would be a good thing.


Third Complaint: Government

I've always been pro-government, untill now. The Patriot Act I & II are completely unconstitutional and violates our basic rights. Congress didn't even read the damn thing, and John Ashcroft is hitler reincarnated. Not to mention the candidates with the most money get elected, and the party system is anti-democratic because they tell you who to vote for and what your opinions should be.

Now you're seeing the light. :D While I'm not convinced Ashcroft is Hitler reincarnated, I will say I don't like him much at all, nor do I like the way the Patriots Acts just flew through Congress without the debate and analysis they should have gotten. That's why I'm against a large government, because I just don't trust that much power in one centralized location.


Fourth Complaint: Capitalism

Big business has our government wrapped around it's little finger, as big business buys out smaller business we lose variety. They can hock up the prices and we can't do anything about it. Even worse examples are Crystal Clear, a conglomerate that owns most of the radio stations in the united states, and has censored all anti-war songs from the air. We are raised to believe that money is the key to happiness.

You mean Clear Channel, and I believe they own about 1200 or so radio stations, but far the most of any other corporation. That being said, there are hundreds of independant college radio stations out there that have independant playlists (I work at one) and they're in no threat of being bought out.

However, I disagree with you about these business being able to screw us. We DO have the power to not purchase their products. Just look at the backlash against the RIAA. Charging eighteen bucks per CD at a record store has finally come back to haunt them. Whether you believe it or not, we control the big businesses more than we think. They've only tricked us in to thinking it's the other way around.


Fith Complaint: Arrogant

What our ancestors did in WWII dosen't mean jack now, you weren't there, you didn't fight and die. Pointing at the French loses is stupid. The fact is if Germany boardered America we would have got our asses kicked. The fact is your under-educated, brain washed by the media, with no grasp on real life, you don't have any right to judge anyone.

Well, I'll say that if Britain could stand up to heavy bombardment, so would America. Also considering so much of the American population is armed, an invasion would be disasterous to any invading nation. I highly doubt we'd have our asses kicked. The Germans were strong, but they WERE fought off by a number of nations.

Clinging to WWII sentiments about war is just outdated.


Sith Complaint: Hypocrites

What is with this "love it or leave it" crap? You sound like your a German citizen from WWII. Anyone who dosen't support the government is unpatriotic? That's called facism, I suggest you look it up after you finish listening to the latest crap they put on the new CD you just bought.

Go look outside, look at the sky, there is a whole world out there, a whole set of facts and information about history you were never tought in school, learn to understand different cultures, learn patience. If everyone does that, I will be proud to be an American.

Buy the CD? All the kiddies use Kazaa nowadays! :D

Hypocrisy is a huge issue. I see it run rampant everywhere. To be honest, the most intelligent people are the worst at it sometimes. They let their belief that they're smarter than everyone else solidify and it will blind them to other things, especially if emotions and biases come in to play. The worst things about people today is the inability to have restraint (such thinking before speaking and learning before thinking) and people's inability to admit when they're wrong. People think that with a college education they're smart. There is a difference between smart and educated, you can be eduated thoroughly in one subject but that doesn't translate to squat in other other specific field of knowledge.

(you had your rant, now that was mine) :D

None the less, I'd say you have a point here. There is a much bigger world out there than most people realize.

[AAASAS]

Lets Just Settle This Whole thing Canada is Better :D! What it is. I can Complain About America too Strupid fucks!

[Pott]

Oh yes, Capitalism has hindered our growth and prosperity so much. I sure wish we were Communists like China or Russia, or better yet, North Korea. I'd love to work for the state for the rest of my life, because, as we all well know, the state produces the greatest products, hence our educational system. Im sooooo jealous of other countries.:roll:
Problem is, none of these countries actually apply Communism, simply because they are totalitarian regimes. They apply the economy that makes their leader richer, and paint it in red and put a star on it. China is opening to the world and if you ever work in a big compay, go there! It's a HUGE market that's free now.

[AAASAS]

good Idea I Have

Move TO Canada.!